Grammar and Rhetoric |
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Palmetto Bug
Quarryman Joined: November/06/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 3934 |
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Posted: October/16/2009 at 8:57am |
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We break from regular programing for the following announcement.
Masons should be familiar with the title of this topic. Those that are - or claim to be - Masons and are members of these Mastermason.com forums are invited to reflect on the following.
The administrators and moderators have noticed an increase lately in the amount of poorly typed posts. Though it is fully understood that typos plague us all and not everyone is equally grounded in the use of the written word, it is respectfully requested that an honest attempt be made to produce quality posts. Grammar, capitalization, spelling, and punctuation all play parts in this. Making mistakes in any of these areas can easily lead to difficulty for the reader and a likelihood that what you typed may be misinterpreted. The style of typing commonly known as "texting" is especially difficult on many readers and should be avoided. Slang, though sometimes useful, should also be carefully considered before being used.
It all boils down to courtesy and pride. Be courteous to your readers by typing properly written pieces - to the best of your ability - that are more easily understood and less likely to be misinterpreted. Have pride in your written word. Since we are unable to sit down face to face and have a conversation, all of us are forced to judge each other based largely on the words and sentences typed into these forums.
Please have a nice day and we will now return to regular programming - already in progress.
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Homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto.
http://palmettomason.blogspot.com/ |
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De Darrah
Matron Joined: November/10/2007 Location: Sacramento CA Status: Offline Points: 3419 |
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De
Past Matron New Hope Ch. #117 OES PWHP Palm Shrine No.32 now Alchor #27 WSOJ Y.B.Y.S.A.I.A. As Brother Ben F. said "In Wine there is Wisdom In Beer there is Freedom In Water there is Bacteria" < |
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djaeon
Entered Apprentice Joined: August/06/2009 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 159 |
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Thank you for that! I hope it helps
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John D. Spreckles Lodge #657 F.&A.M.
Entered - 10/19/09; Passed - 2/8/10; Raised - 4/26/10 Al Bhar Shrine - 5/22/10 |
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Lighthouse
Quarryman Joined: October/23/2008 Location: Benicia, CA Status: Offline Points: 408 |
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The written word is still the primary means of communication via the internet. Proper spelling, grammar, and sentence structure are key to effective communication. As P-Bug stated, we all make mistakes and that is forgivable. To willingly persist in poor communication will get yourself ignored in a hurry. |
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-Brent
Naval Lodge No. 87 (Vallejo, CA): Secretary & Trestle Board Editor |
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capquest
Quarryman Joined: November/02/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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Well put! As a secretary I have to read the unreadable and unscru the inscrutable.
The FIRST of the seven liberal arts is Grammar for a reason. The first thing the GAOTU told Adam to do was to name everything. GAOTU doesn't need Grammar but we humans do! |
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Capt. D
Secretary Ashlar 98 F & AM Florida |
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daves
Administrator Joined: January/21/2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3811 |
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Thank you administrators! These new phonetic abbreviations, eg m8 for mate, may save time for the sender, but not for recipients like me who have to sit there and translate. Sometimes I just give up, and the message hasn't got through which, I'm sure, wasn't the intent of the sender.
Remember, the responsibility for ensuring that a message gets through to the mind of the recipient sits entirely with the sender. |
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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20) 18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5) The Carrington Lodge |
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tm274
Administrator The True Time Traveling WM .·. Joined: March/31/2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5686 |
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Ripper, mate.
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Initiated : 23rd April 2002
Passed : 25th June 2002 Raised : 24th Sept 2002 Atheism is a non-prophet organization. 32° Farenheit is certainly not higher than 3° Cel. |
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Palmetto Bug
Quarryman Joined: November/06/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 3934 |
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Mercy - now we are going to have to discuss Aussie slang.
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Homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto.
http://palmettomason.blogspot.com/ |
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tm274
Administrator The True Time Traveling WM .·. Joined: March/31/2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5686 |
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...........now to get my coffee.!
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Initiated : 23rd April 2002
Passed : 25th June 2002 Raised : 24th Sept 2002 Atheism is a non-prophet organization. 32° Farenheit is certainly not higher than 3° Cel. |
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squarehead
Quarryman Joined: September/02/2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 695 |
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Fa' sho Brother PM-Bug! (just kidding). I will be certain to do my part. Good post by the way.
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MWPHGLTX F A&M
NEW LIGHT LODGE#242 MT. SINAI CHAPTER #42 SOUTH CENTRAL COMMANDERY #37 NUBIA TEMPLE #191 (AEAONMS) Y.B.Y.S.A.I.A "Seek first to understand, Then to be understood." &nbs |
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khead27
Quarryman Joined: September/13/2009 Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Well put. Now, if I could get my kids to give up text talk!
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Square Work Lodge #596
MWPHGLGA |
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Bob Ash
Newbie Joined: November/16/2009 Location: Broken Arrow OK Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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I even make my kids text me in full, punctuated sentences.
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daves
Administrator Joined: January/21/2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3811 |
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Good on you, Brother Bob.
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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20) 18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5) The Carrington Lodge |
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nhamel
Quarryman Joined: November/29/2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Hello im sorry that my posts may be poorly typed. i have Dyslexia and its a lot of work for me.
i will try to use microsoft works or something like that before typeing on the forums so im sorry if some of my past forums was poorly typed
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AE. 1/09
FC. 2/09 MM.3/09 Morning Sun # 5 http://www.vtfreemasons.org/lodges/bridport.asp |
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daves
Administrator Joined: January/21/2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3811 |
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I use Microsoft's free Wordpad program for preparing the longer posts - I've found it very useful. In the meantime Bro Nhamel, good on you for keeping on trying.
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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20) 18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5) The Carrington Lodge |
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Shoe
Groupie Joined: June/17/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 63 |
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Has anyone else noticed that the more texting and emailing there is the worse the handwriting has gotten, especially in the younger generations.
I don't know maybe it's just me. haha |
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Jim
MM from ohio. Jr. Stwt. Niles Mckinley Lodge #794 The Journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. |
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Tensolator
Groupie Joined: January/07/2010 Location: The Mountains Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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I like this topic.
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Hypochondriacs are their own terrorists...-Saul Bellow
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daves
Administrator Joined: January/21/2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3811 |
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My handwriting has always been awful and I was always in trouble for it when I was at school. My excuse was that it had "character". |
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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20) 18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5) The Carrington Lodge |
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khead27
Quarryman Joined: September/13/2009 Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Square Work Lodge #596
MWPHGLGA |
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jimzdat
Quarryman Joined: June/29/2008 Location: Belpre, OH Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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One of the automotive forums I am a member of has had a similar problem. As such, they have implemented a number of rules for the forum, that all members are REQUIRED to accept before they can post. I have copied these rules below - keep in mind some of the rules are auto-related, but some of these may be applied to just about any forum.
Might be worth amending the mastermason.com forum "rules of etiquette"
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
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Interesting topic. I saw a report on TV, stating that handwriting, especially cursive/script will disappear in a generation. Myself, I cherish the written word, notwithstanding the fact, that my one handwriting is atrocious (my wife calls my handwriting "feet-writing"). I have no problem with text shorthand, in moderation. (I'm L8 for a meeting. C U 2morrow), in a text message. I am appalled to see this communication creeping into emails and memoranda. Languages are one of my hobbies. (I speak Russian at home with my wife). English is one of the most difficult languages, to spell. In written documents, prior to the late 18th century, you would often see the same word spelled differently, on the same page! Noah Webster, was one of the first to push for standardized spelling of English. Sadly, young people today are losing the ability to spell English words properly.
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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YoungBlood
Quarryman Joined: February/04/2010 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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Cursive writing was one of those things that we were taught in fourth or fifth grade and then never used it again, unless signing our names. If they didn't stress writing in cursive after that, then I never understood why it was even taught in the first place. |
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I - Oct 17, 2009
P - Jan 16, 2010 R - March 6, 2010 Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret - Nov 13, 2010 Sir Knight - Feb 26, 201 |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
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The Air Force taught me Russian. I later married a Russian. I am not fluent, but I can get by. One benefit of having a Russian wife, is that she can give me a cussing in her language, I don't understand all the words. She feels better, and I am not offended!
If you wish to learn Russian, Try Rosetta Stone. I belong to a Russian Study group, I connected with on Meetup.com . When I am home, we meet at a coffee shop, and practice Russian. I also converse with Russians on ham radio sometimes.
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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YoungBlood
Quarryman Joined: February/04/2010 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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Hey, sometimes that's all it takes. Enough to get by to save your life - literally. What would I be looking at cost wise? And is it very effective? I'm what you could call "stubborn" with foreign languages, my mother always said I was thick headed... |
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I - Oct 17, 2009
P - Jan 16, 2010 R - March 6, 2010 Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret - Nov 13, 2010 Sir Knight - Feb 26, 201 |
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daves
Administrator Joined: January/21/2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3811 |
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I was taught French and German at school. What is amazing is how the language comes back to you after years and years when you are put in the situation of having to speak it. I had to work for a short while near Dusseldorf in NW Germany. My colleagues all laughed at my German because they said I sounded like a very formal Berliner. I got the last laugh - we had to go to Graz in Austria to meet with some other German speakers. The Dusseldorfers and the Austrians couldn't understand each other because their dialects were so strong. But I could understand both sides and finished up trying to translate. In the end we settled on English.
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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20) 18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5) The Carrington Lodge |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
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Check out http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-russian . I have never used their program, but they have a good reputation. You should also look on meetup and see if there is a Russian study group or club in your town. |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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YoungBlood
Quarryman Joined: February/04/2010 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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As they say in German, "danke." |
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I - Oct 17, 2009
P - Jan 16, 2010 R - March 6, 2010 Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret - Nov 13, 2010 Sir Knight - Feb 26, 201 |
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MasterHangman33
Quarryman Joined: March/02/2008 Location: On the Level Status: Offline Points: 323 |
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Agreed. Once, my nephew sent me a text in what looked like ebonics. I had to sit down and talk with Him, lol. I tend to capitalize certain words that mean more to me individually, like Family and Brother, You and Ours, which tends to rub some People the wrong way. I do not mean anything by it, it is just a habit. I am very altruistic in context to others.
i have been aspiring to speak with brevity, condensing sentences down to maximize benefit of resonance in shared communication, kind of like an everything said in 5 or less words kind of thing. Edited by MasterHangman33 - March/21/2010 at 6:02pm |
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Worshipful Master
Trenton/Wyandotte #8 PHP Trenton Chapter #173 Union Council #11 Valley of Detroit A.A.S.R |
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bmr33775
Newbie Joined: May/01/2010 Location: Norfolk, Va Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Well put. You know shows me yet another reason I love the Craft. On the outside, someone may have been offended by this, but when you put a bunch of brothers together and one of us is trying to keep things square, everyone agrees. And I agree, it may take a little longer to type it out, however, most of these posts are accessed by google and there are already millions out there that HATE Mason's for no reason at all, why give them something else to look down on. |
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BRO. Burnell Reliford
ST. John Lodge #35 Rota, Spain |
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Stuntman98
Quarryman Joined: August/25/2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Sometimes i will spell in a manner that is readable to a TRUE MM, will that not fly? |
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S.S. Sons of Light No.77
P.M. Pride of The Walton No.110 MWPHGL Washington District No.9 SPAIN MILITARY CONSISTORY #99 AASR,PHA |
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maboot38
Quarryman Joined: August/11/2010 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 428 |
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I'm a moderator on another Masonic site and I recently had someone post on the forum in a block of text that had absolutley no punctuation, and the first letter of every word was capitalized.
I had no choice but to call him out on it, as he said he believed himself to be a wise man and also cited Mark Twain as one of his most admired authors. We pulled out the grammar and rhetoric argument and I asked him if the thought Samuel Clemens would be entertained by his writing style.
His format changed immediately. Edited by maboot38 - November/15/2010 at 1:55pm |
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Tar Heel 357
Senior Member Joined: June/20/2010 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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Thanks for the reminder Palmetto Bug. All of us need to be reminded of writing properly from time to time. This is true in life, not just Freemasonry.
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Silver Square Lodge #791, MWPHGLNC
Edwards Evans Consistory #196, PHA Kindah Temple #62, AEAONMS Cumberland Chapter #70, HRAM Bayard-Titus-Johnson Council #2, R&SM Pilgrim Rest Commandery #11 |
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sapperguy
Newbie Joined: November/21/2010 Location: schweinfurt, ge Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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First, I must apologize in advance as I am a member of a motorcycle forum where we use slang and text type writing in our posts. I will do the best I can in responding to keep that out of here. Here's what really disturbs me. I am a Staff Sergeant in the Army and am a platoon sergeant. I have both squad and team leaders who work for me that are all graduates of high school and some even college, who can't write the simplest things in a formal manner. Something as simple as a monthly review of a Soldier, is spelled incorrectly, grammatically incorrect, and almost impossible to read and/or follow. What is going on with our education system today? I think it's pretty bad when I, a product of the Kentucky education system, have to correct almost all of the writing that the leaders in my unit produce. In my eyes, that is pretty rediculous and dissapoints me greatly. I admit I am not the best writer in the world, but I do take pride in what I do and try to work with them to improve their writing skills, but I figure if a stupid redneck can do it, why can't they? |
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coach
Moderator Joined: October/23/2005 Location: Tampa Bay Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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The same thing that is going on with far to many Lodges. All that is required it showing up and doing the bare minimum to warrant progression.
These types of rules and their enforcement give us exactly what we have. Instead of plenty and abundance, we have scarcity and are left wanting.
Because they currently have nothing stopping them due to their lacking.
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Stuntman98
Quarryman Joined: August/25/2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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AR 25-50
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S.S. Sons of Light No.77
P.M. Pride of The Walton No.110 MWPHGL Washington District No.9 SPAIN MILITARY CONSISTORY #99 AASR,PHA |
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coach
Moderator Joined: October/23/2005 Location: Tampa Bay Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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All right... I'll bite.
What's AR 25-50?
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Tar Heel 357
Senior Member Joined: June/20/2010 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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I believe it is the Army regulation that governs writing style, the preparation of various military documents, i.e., letters, memoranda, decision documents, etc.
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Silver Square Lodge #791, MWPHGLNC
Edwards Evans Consistory #196, PHA Kindah Temple #62, AEAONMS Cumberland Chapter #70, HRAM Bayard-Titus-Johnson Council #2, R&SM Pilgrim Rest Commandery #11 |
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Stuntman98
Quarryman Joined: August/25/2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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correct, it mirrors the APA (American Psychological Association) a bit so i believe its a good tool to used when writing anything that can be viewed by the public if it is supposed to present a positive view.
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S.S. Sons of Light No.77
P.M. Pride of The Walton No.110 MWPHGL Washington District No.9 SPAIN MILITARY CONSISTORY #99 AASR,PHA |
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coach
Moderator Joined: October/23/2005 Location: Tampa Bay Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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GaryE
Quarryman Joined: December/17/2010 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 104 |
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Hardly. But then, just about any document put out by the government is neither a quick or easy read.
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Tar Heel 357
Senior Member Joined: June/20/2010 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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AR 25-50 is not meant to be a quick read. It's purpose is to be a reference guide for the preparation of various Army correspondence and documents. But, one can certainly read it in its entirety if you want to do so.
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Silver Square Lodge #791, MWPHGLNC
Edwards Evans Consistory #196, PHA Kindah Temple #62, AEAONMS Cumberland Chapter #70, HRAM Bayard-Titus-Johnson Council #2, R&SM Pilgrim Rest Commandery #11 |
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triplej220
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Its definitely a good tool when you have to write business letters and memo's for your College English Class while deployed.....I was able to keep the books back at home in the states last deployment because of it.
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GEORGE W.PRIOLEAU #13 MWPHGLAZ
Initiated - 25 May 2001 Passed - 22 June 2001 Raised - 20 July 2001 Y.B.Y.S.A.I.A. |
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triplej220
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Apparently LeinY didn't read the posts regarding using proper grammar let alone the forum guidelines.....
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GEORGE W.PRIOLEAU #13 MWPHGLAZ
Initiated - 25 May 2001 Passed - 22 June 2001 Raised - 20 July 2001 Y.B.Y.S.A.I.A. |
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masonic.truths
Muzzled Joined: February/20/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 804 |
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I believe that this should be emphasized again. |
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maboot38
Quarryman Joined: August/11/2010 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 428 |
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Absolutely!!!
I think every Mason should remember the following phrase whether in public or posting on an internet site....
"YOU are SOMEBODY'S impression of Freemasonry"
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tm274
Administrator The True Time Traveling WM .·. Joined: March/31/2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5686 |
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I've noticed a great improvement in the "diction" used by members, of late and haven't really seen anything that warrants a re-issue.
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Initiated : 23rd April 2002
Passed : 25th June 2002 Raised : 24th Sept 2002 Atheism is a non-prophet organization. 32° Farenheit is certainly not higher than 3° Cel. |
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masonic.truths
Muzzled Joined: February/20/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 804 |
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Most members are careful, but there are still a few offenders that use texting style, slang, and excessive abbreviations. |
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drew
Senior Member Joined: April/11/2011 Location: Halifax Nova Sc Status: Offline Points: 104 |
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I must say that I am pleased that this board had these guidelines.
Text style lingo is alright on some message boards; but not needed here. Spelling, I think, is very important in all prose. Nothing is worse than seeing a grown man who does not know when to use the words there/their appropriately; or does not know how to use the word you're at all. Nothing is worse though, than people who spell no when they want to say know. Thank you for keeping this board up to intelligent standards.
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...when the guns are the fenceposts; the cars are the doghouse; and the telephone no longer rings.
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EJW
Groupie Joined: March/29/2011 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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I apologise if I do this in any of my posts in advance. I've become rather used to adding in 'text' language into my lecture note taking and sometimes it slips over into my forum posts.
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Lodge Tongariro No.705 (EC)
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ClanLabCooker
Newbie Joined: April/17/2011 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Several have commented on the poor, and continually decreasing, ability of recent high school graduates to communicate effectively, especially using the written language. In the long run we only have ourselves to blame. We have embraced modern, forward looking programs such as No Child Left Behind, mainstreaming, and a host of others. This has been at the expense of "old, worn out, antiquated" programs that effectively taught the fundamentals of phonetics, grammer and basic effective communication skills.
I am NOT opposed to modern techniques and technology, when it is an improvement! However, change for the sake of change all too often is a step in the wrong direction. Sorry, I will step off my soapbox now. I realize I have quite probably offended a number of readers, and for that, I apologize. However, I will not apologize for my opinion, it is my own. You do not have to agree with me. As Brothers, we should be able to voice our own opinions, and listen with respect to those agreeing, and disagreeing, with us.
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