A Question for GrimoireA3

WBScott wrote: I am sure this question has been asked of you (and probably answered) more than once on this forum.... If you are so enamored of Freemasonry, why don't you petition a lodge and join?

Hi WBScott,

Sorry for the delay in my response.

Yes, this question has been asked of me a few times in the past, and thank you for asking it again.

I. First, I really don't think I'm qualified to be a Mason, and I don't think I would be accepted after filling out all the initial paperwork.

II. I don't think I could commit the time and effort to the demands of an active fraternity. I have other irons in the fire.

III. After six years of military service (4 years active duty Navy; 2 years active reserve National Guard) I developed an aversion to uniforms and medals/medallions. I have seen several photographic portraits of Masons all bedecked out in formal wear and trinkets. That is not my scene.

IV. There is no guarantee that I would have anything in common with my fellow Masons if I joined, as I discovered after joining a yacht club and had nothing in common with my fellow members.

V. I discovered a lot of the philosophy of Masonry I found mentioned in the literature and manuals to be already familiar to me, some of which is considered obsolete or redundant or delusional in the modern academic curriculum(i.e. the Quadrivium or Trivium or Kabbala or Gnosticism, mythology, legends, plays or skits .... etc.).

IV. And finally, if I did become a Freemason, I would have to be very circumspect and not be asking tough questions to Brother Masons. I like being an academic 'loose cannon' (on the deck) and dig for info.

As I explained a while ago, I discovered Freemasonry about three years ago when I came across a 'Masonic Bible' with a lot of Egyptian stuff in it (the Masonic bible uses the King James text). And that got my head to scratch'in. Why do the Freemasons have their own Bible??? And with six years of college education (4 years undergraduate; 2 years graduate) my academic curiosity was piqued.

So off to the Boston Public Library I went and found a plethora of Masonic literature going back to the 1700s. I found that reading Masonic writings to be fascinating, intelligent, insightful, and curious. I needed more and more as I dug deeper into Masonic myth and lore.

To complement the readings I needed to communicate with 'real' Freemasons so as to not draw any false conclusions. As a basis of comparison demanded by objective research I read all the 'anti-Mason' literature along with the 'pro-mason' literature to reach my own decisions.

Being a Boston native, I have walked past the Massachusetts Grand Lodge on Tremont street for over 50 years without thinking much about it. I just assumed it was another rich man's Yankee club here in Boston. I took the public tour they give and was very impressed by the beauty of the various rooms. Yet the huge lodge was very opulent and had several dozen marble statues all over the place - there were twenty foot statues of the two Johns on one end, and twenty foot statues of Benjamin Franklin and Athena on the opposite end with marble columns, huge portraits of various Masons and a lot of other statuary throughout each lodge room: (kinda looked like the sanctum of my Catholic Church?). A critic could make a case of idolatry in those baroque-rococo halls and rooms?? Yet the young tour guides in blazers and ties were tight lipped about any pointed questions regarding Masonry.

It is on Mastermason.com Forums (a public venue) that I am able to converse with real live and active Freemasons, which has been very educational for me. Thanks guys!!

I have a small collection of Masonic books and videotapes (THE FREEMASON movie) which I am going to donate to the Mass. Grand Lodge library on the third floor.

Hope this long spiel answers your question.

Edited by GrimoireA3 - September/13/2016 at 9:57am

I do sincerely appreciate the time you put into your reply to my question, but like droche, there are many things I do not understand.

Edited by WBScott - September/14/2016 at 9:35pm

WBScott wrote: I. I don't know about Massachusetts, but in Missouri, in order to become a Mason, you must be a man, free born, of lawful age (18 in Missouri), bearing a tongue of good report and coming well recommended. In addition, you must not be an old man in his dotage, an atheist, an irreligious libertine (a scoffer of religious truths), a madman or a fool. Do you not meet one or more of those qualifications

The Massachusetts Grand Lodge also has a form similar to a government job application to fill out. But I do have some Tyranosaurus Rex size skeletons in my closet which is why I hesitate to apply for membership [that's all I'm gonna say on that subject].

WBScott wrote: III. As droche has said, there are no "uniforms" per se. Some lodges require a suit and tie, In some lodges the officers wear tuxedos. In the lodges in my district (some of which are in rural parts of the counties), we like to see the brothers in slacks and a collared shirt. Ties are not required and we frown upon shorts and T-shirts. As far as the "trinkets', only the officers wear jewels representing  their office. As far as the portraits you may have seen of men such as George Washington and Harry Truman, keep in mind that they were Grand Masters (the highest rank anyone can achieve in any Grand Lodge) and that these are formal portraits showing them in full Masonic regalia.

You see it's any type of Masonic Regalia (i.e. uniform) at all which I would refuse to wear, let alone purchase. And that is thanks to my military service which gave me a serious case of the willies to ANY type of uniform (or formal wear or regalia, etc. etc.).

WBScott wrote: IV. No, there is no guarantee you will have anything in common with the other men in any lodge, other than your love of god. However once you are made a Master Mason, you can attend pretty much any lodge in the world.

Thanks. Sounds similar to the yacht club I joined. You can visit any yacht club in America with your valid yacht club membership card. Unfortunately not every 'boat person' is someone I care to socialize with on any level (cops, lawyers, judges, journalists, yuppies, etc.). I would be afraid it might be the same with Freemason lodges.

WBScott wrote: VI. You can be as academic as you want, but please try not to look down upon those of us who join simply to be of service to our fellow men, not to delve into the more esoteric dimensions of Freemasonry.

Look down? - no. Disappointed? - yes. Sorry I am not coming across accurately with my clipped and quickly typed explanations and discussions on this forum. Which is why I suggested a meeting of New England area Masons on this forum with myself face to face to clear up any misconceptions.

WBScott wrote: As far as the tour guides being "tight-lipped" about Masonry, you must keep in mind that while Freemasonry is not a secret society, it is a society with secrets! Only those who have gone through the three degrees are entitled to those secrets. As a "civilian" taking a tour of the Grand Lodge. the guides will share only that information to which you are entitled. You can study all of the myth and lore of Freemasonry you want, but that does not entitle you to the same rights and privileges as those of us who are indeed Freemasons.

Oh absolutely yes. I would have been annoyed if those young tourguides spilled any Masonic beans during the tour. It was a compliment that they were tight lipped.

With all due respect, it sounds like you are enamored with what you think Freemasonry represents or may have represented at some time in the past, but you have also presented a laundry list of reasons why you are not willing to actually become one yourself. 

Edited by WBScott - September/18/2016 at 9:36am

BroScubaSteve wrote: Sounds like someone knocked out their CO. (My dad did this) and now has aversion to authority.

Edited by GrimoireA3 - September/19/2016 at 10:24am

WBScott wrote: With all due respect, it sounds like you are enamored with what you think Freemasonry represents or may have represented at some time in the past, but you have also presented a laundry list of reasons why you are not willing to actually become one yourself.

You can read all the books you want to. No one person has a monopoly on Freemasonry. Coach can put all his writings out there for others to read. It doesn't mean he is right (or wrong ;) )

Your readings would be the equivalent of a sergeant with every stripe and award having to yield to a 21 year old 1st lieutenant. The only difference is that the sergeant is still in the same organization.

Freemasonry is an initiatic fraternity. THAT is what creates the bond. We have all gone as others have gone before us...not because we subscribe to an author.

Good luck on your research. However, if you've ever felt any brotherhood with your fellow military men, then that is as close to Freemasonry as you will get. The feeling that you will do anything for that man next to you not because he is your friend, but because he is your brother whether you know him or not.


Edited by BroScubaSteve - September/19/2016 at 1:44pm

GrimoireA3 wrote: droche wrote: Grimoire, I am curious what books and literature about Freemasonry you have read at the Boston Public Library. Do you mind providing a list? Hi droche, It would be a daunting task to type every title I've read on Masonry in the past three years (recently including the Building Better Men series). So I'm giving you the webpage url to the Boston Public Library where I get my reading materials. www.bpl.org   click on collections, type in Freemasonry, or Masonry

coach wrote: GrimoireA3 wrote: III. After six years of military service (4 years active duty Navy; 2 years active reserve National Guard) I developed an aversion to uniforms and medals/medallions. I have seen several photographic portraits of Masons all bedecked out in formal wear and trinkets. That is not my scene. You might look into a more laid back lodge. Some wear shorts and flip-flops.

droche wrote: The rest is up to him. I'm always here to help.

And that kind offer is greatly appreciated. Thank you droche!

droche wrote: Grimoire, I am curious what books and literature about Freemasonry you have read at the Boston Public Library. Do you mind providing a list?

Hi droche,

O.K., here goes. Some of three years readings, but not all:

The Theocratic Philosophy of Freemasonry (1840) by George Oliver

Stellar Theology & Masonic Astronomy(1882) by Robert Hewitt Brown

The Freemason's Manual (1851) by Kensey Johns Stewart

Cracking Codes and Cryptograms For Dummies: Understanding the Freemason's Cipher by Denise Sutherland and Mark Kolto-Rivera

The Meaning of Masonry (1924) by Albert Pike

Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry by Albert Pike

Mimitsu Kessha (The Secret Society) 1900 by French Roman Catholic Priest Father F. Ligneul [an anti-Mason work]

Masonry: Beyond the Light by William Schnoebelen {anti-Mason work]

33 Degrees of Deception (2011) by Tom C. McKenney [an anti-Mason work]

The Deadly Deception: Freemasonry Exposed by one of its top Leaders by James D. Shaw [an anti-Mason work]

Deciphering the Lost Symbol by Christopher L. Hodapp

Hidden Secrets of Masonry by Cathy Burns

The Brotherhood (1984) by Stephen Knight

The Mysteries of John the Baptist: His legacy in Gnosticism, Paganism, and Freemasonry (2012) by Tobias Churton

Builders of Empire: Freemasns and British Imperialism 1717-1927 (2007) by Jessica Harland-Jacobs

The Passion Stroke: A Tale of Ancient Masonry(1906) by Mary Fairweather

Neo-Masonry: A new age cultural asset a plea and plan for peaceful change (1974) by Lynn F. Perkins

Thomas Dunckerley: A Remarkable Freemason (1982) by Ron Chudley

Thomas Dunckerley and English Freemasonry by Susan Mitchell Sommers

Masonic Casket - 1823/1826

Opinions on Speculative Masonry - 1830

Freemasonry of the Ancient Egyptians

A Brief Inquiry into Origins and Principles of Freemasonry (1820) by Simon Greenleaf

Revolution and Freemasonry (1935) by Bernard Fay

The True Masonic Chart (1846) by Jeremy L. Cross

The Early History of Freemasonry in England (1844)

Great American Masons (1924) by George W. Baird

The Antiquities of Freemasonry (1843) by George T. Oliver

'Boston Masonic Mirror' journal, 1830

A Century of Freemasonry in Nantucket (1903) by Alexander Starbuck

The Royal National LIfe-Boat Institution and the Masonic LIfe Boat A century of Association, book, (1973) by Ivan Francis Trinder

Masonic Charities (1987)

Brother Truman (1985) by Allen E. Roberts

A Life of Albert Pike (1997) by Walter Lee Brown

Who is Who in Freemasonry (1986)

Masonic Priorities (1982) by Adewale Thompson

Masonic Gleanings (1956) by Robert Glenn Cole

Masonic Lodge Methods (1953) by L.B. Blakemore

'The Freemason's Calender for the Year 1788, Being Bissextile or Leap year' by Freemasons, Grande Lodge (England) 1788

The Pocket History of Freemasonry(1969) by Fred L. Pick

'Proofs of a Conspiracy Against All The Religions and Governments of Europe Carried Out in the Secret Meetings of Freemasons' (1797) by John Robinson

10,000 Famous Freemasons(1957) by William R. Denslow

On The Origins of Free-Masonry (1810) by Thomas Paine

The Gospel Recommended to Freemasons (June 24, 1803) Festival of St. John the Baptist by Festus Foster

The Secret Warfare of Freemasonry Against Church and State (1875) by G.M. Pachtler

The Discrepancies of Freemasonry (1875) by George Oliver

Masonry The Way to Hell A Sermon, 1768 e-book

The Freemasons(1869) by Louis Gaston de Se'gur

'Masonry is the Same all over the World! Another Masonic Murder (1780) by Samuel Anderson e-book

Stalwart Builders A History of the Grand Lodge of Masons in Massachusetts 1733-1970 (1971) by Thomas Sherrard Roy

The Freemason's Companion, or Pocket Preceptors (1804)

The Masonic Almanac and Pocket Companion, from July to the End of the Year 1801

The Lost Keys of Freemasonry (1976) by Manly P. Hall

Illustrations of Masonry(1792) by William Preston

The Amaranth 'or' Masonic Garland

The Freemason Stripped Naked(1765) by Charles Warren

Fratrimonium Excelsum: A New Ahiman Rezon(1770) by A Worthy Brother

The Freemason's Pocket Companion(1773) by John Entick

Ahiman Rezon (1764) by Laurence Dermott

The Complete Freemason or 'Multa Paucis' For Lovers of Secrets (1764) e-book

Masonic Emblems Explained(1842) by Thaddeus Mason Harris

Conversations on Freemasonry (1976) by Henry Wilson Coil

The Chaplain's Guide to Freemasonry (2016) by J.A. Shapira

FREEMASNRY IS ONLY 152 YEARS OLD!! (1869) e-book

The Jews and Freemasonry by Jacob Katz

___________________________________________________________

There are more minor pamphlets and tracts. And yes I did read this entire list of works, some of which are only ten to twelve pages in length. Very enjoyable reading material.

'SO MOTE IT BE' - y'all.

Please note that "The Meaning Of Masonry" (circa 1924) was written by Walter Wilmshurst NOT Albert Pike. 

GrimoireA3 wrote: BroScubaSteve wrote: You can read all the books you want to. No one person has a monopoly on Freemasonry. Coach can put all his writings out there for others to read. It doesn't mean he is right (or wrong ;) ) Your readings would be the equivalent of a sergeant with every stripe and award having to yield to a 21 year old 1st lieutenant. The only difference is that the sergeant is still in the same organization. Freemasonry is an initiatic fraternity. THAT is what creates the bond. We have all gone as others have gone before us...not because we subscribe to an author. Good luck on your research. So there is no correspondence course to becoming raised?

There is. It is called Ritual Work and one's own path to what it means to them. If a Brother assumes what some other Mason put in a book is what Masonry is, then they are cheating themselves out of discovering what it really means for himself. You can't have an "ahah!" moment if you have a preconceived notion of masonry is. There is a part where we tell you to dispel any preconceived notion you may have regarding Freemasonry for this exact reason.

Simply put, your assumptions of Masonry and what it means to the individual vary greatly between each person who receives the degrees. It would be like me commenting on the bond military men share in combat because I watched the history channel or read some books. You being in the military would laugh at me for even assuming one ounce of what that feels like.

Therefore, I say this:

(The ceremonies in which you are about to participate have existed from a remote antiquity and therefore they may be strange and perhaps even meaningless to you since the manners and customs of those ages are so different from those of today.)

I can write that out because it is said to a man before he becomes a mason. My journey through the Craft is not dictated by any author. It is through the teachings at lodge during the degrees, lectures and any other ritual that one may witness as a Master Mason. Only then, can I begin to form an opinion of what I see. Not what someone else tells me to see.

Claudy is not on your list of reading which is interesting. You're tailoring your reading to the glamorous side and not reading anything based in reality. It's hard to distinguish the two until you become a Mason.

Getting back to Claudy: I would not suggest it because it may ruin the experience if you ever decide to petition. Funny thing is, you claim that you would not be accepted. You are essentially cubing yourself at the ballot before you even get to a ballot. You need to subscribe to the, "It's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all," mentality.

You have two outcomes:
1. You petition, air it out and get accepted. Great!
2. You petition, air it out and get cubed. That would be unfortunate, however you will be where you are now in life. A non-mason posting on a message board. The only reason you should be cubed is for masonic reasons. Your IC thinks you're lying or not being candid may get you an unfavorable report. If you have any felonies you may not get in. If you were DD'd from the military, explain why. That may not come up in a background check but, if that is in your past, explain it. I would not cube someone solely based on that without more info. There is no flow chart for "if -> then" when it comes to performing an investigation. The only caveat would be a felony in jurisdictions where it is an automatic DQ.

Hint: If you keep in contact with the lodge "if cubed" and show that you are interested, you can be balloted on again (felony excepting). Hypothetical scenario: A man petitions and is cubed. Six months later he is up for a vote again and gets in. It does happen.





Edited by BroScubaSteve - September/22/2016 at 11:36am

Adept? wrote: log cabin Bill wrote: Please note that "The Meaning Of Masonry" (circa 1924) was written by Walter Wilmshurst NOT Albert Pike.  True statement. A good read too. I didn't see Esoterika: The symbolism of the blue degrees of Freemasonry on your list. That one is by Pike, and was another enlightening read.

Hi Adept?,

Thanks for the title, 'Esoterika'. But the book I listed, "The Meaning of Masonry" was written by Albert Pike, I just neglected to list the entire reference.

'THE MEANING OF MASONRY Being The First Half Of A Lecture Delivered Before The Grand Lodge Of Louisiana, By Request, in 1858.'
by Albert Pike

book, 66 pages, - 1924

Washington D.C.
The Masonic Service Association of the United States.

Thanks for reading my entire list.

BroScubaSteve wrote: GrimoireA3 wrote: [QUOTE=BroScubaSteve] You can read all the books you want to. No one person has a monopoly on Freemasonry. Coach can put all his writings out there for others to read. It doesn't mean he is right (or wrong ;) ) Your readings would be the equivalent of a sergeant with every stripe and award having to yield to a 21 year old 1st lieutenant. The only difference is that the sergeant is still in the same organization. Freemasonry is an initiatic fraternity. THAT is what creates the bond. We have all gone as others have gone before us...not because we subscribe to an author. Good luck on your research. [QUOTE=BroScubaSteve] Claudy is not on your list of reading which is interesting. You're tailoring your reading to the glamorous side and not reading anything based in reality. It's hard to distinguish the two until you become a Mason. Getting back to Claudy: I would not suggest it because it may ruin the experience if you ever decide to petition. Funny thing is, you claim that you would not be accepted. You are essentially cubing yourself at the ballot before you even get to a ballot. You need to subscribe to the, "It's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all," mentality.

Hi BroScubaSteve'

Three years ago when I accidentally came across a 'Masonic Bible' I had no idea there was such a wealth of literature generated by the Freemasons.

So when I saw literally thousands of titles about Freemasonry [anti-Mason and pro-Mason] on the Boston Public Library book catalog, I did not know where to begin. I am really not tailoring my Freemason reading list simply because I didn't know what Freemasonry was all about! So I just started cherry-picking titles randomly until I could form some sort of pattern to Freemasonry. I discovered how much I enjoyed the Masonic literature, how much Freemasonry has contributed to History (my forte'), that there was such a thing as 'Anti-Masons' which I never knew existed, and Masonry has a 'philosophy' which really stuck the harpoon in me. There are also titles on other sources such as Amazon.com.

Now, 'Claudy'? I didn't mention him because I haven't read him yet, because of the blizzard of titles and authors and pamphlets presented on the library screen. How do I chose which to read?? But now that you have brought him up -- Carl H. Claudy -- I will certainly find the time to read his works: 'A Master's Wagers' and 'Introduction to Freemasonry' and others.

I've already read all of Coach's Building Better Men Series. So I don't think it will do me any more harm if I read Carl H. Claudy's series, available on amazon.com. Maybe Coach has a rival? NOW I'm gonna haff to read C.H.Claudy to compare & contrast with Coach's Building Better Men series.

I am currently reading: 'The Pythagorean Theorem: A 4,000-year History' (2007) by Dr. Eli Maor, (258 pages), which gives the history of A2 + B2 = C2 and all its proofs and interpretations. Though nothing to do with Masonry per se, it might has some collateral contributions to 'The Craft'.

I appreciate your up-beat attitude as if I were about to petition for a raising, but I really am not going to become a Mason. Friend of Masonry is about it. Thanks guys.

GrimoireA3 wrote: Dr. Steven C. Bullock, Phd, History Professor of Worcester Polytech comes to my mind. I was told here on Mastermason.com forums that he is considered an expert on Freemasonry though he's never been a Mason.

I believe I was the one who stated that to the best of my knowledge, Dr. Bullock is not a Mason. For all I know he might be, but I had never seen him at any Masonic function here in Worcester. Also, to the best of my knowledge, nobody in the Worcester Masonic community has ever reached out to him, but I am or haven't been privy to everything that goes on in it. Pity for whatever reason he is not involved here. He would be an outstanding resource for Masonic education in this area.

GrimoireA3 wrote: ...Three years ago when I accidentally came across a 'Masonic Bible' I had no idea there was such a wealth of literature generated by the Freemasons.

It is amazing how much information has been amassed by Freemasonic and non-freemasonic authors on this subject.

GrimoireA3 wrote: ...Now, 'Claudy'? I didn't mention him because I haven't read him yet, because of the blizzard of titles and authors and pamphlets presented on the library screen. How do I chose which to read?? But now that you have brought him up -- Carl H. Claudy -- I will certainly find the time to read his works: 'A Master's Wagers' and 'Introduction to Freemasonry' and others.

He's a very popular author and as you read some of his materials, I believe you shall see why.

GrimoireA3 wrote: I've already read all of Coach's Building Better Men Series. So I don't think it will do me any more harm if I read Carl H. Claudy's series, available on amazon.com. Maybe Coach has a rival? NOW I'm gonna haff to read C.H.Claudy to compare & contrast with Coach's Building Better Men series.

Claudy complements what I wrote. His focus is on relationships and lessons that can be learned. Mine is more personal development as it relates to what Work Ritual points us toward. You may enjoy what he wrote as it is heart and gut level common sense.

GrimoireA3 wrote: ... but I really am not going to become a Mason. Friend of Masonry is about it. Thanks guys.

Either way, I hope you find what you are looking for.

Actually, Claudy is required reading for new Massachusetts Masons. I know I stated previous there was no required reading aside from the lectures of the degrees. I was mistaken. Required in the sense that candidates are given his books at their degrees and they are discussed at the Lodges of Instruction. There are no tests or quizzes, or no papers to write. There is no way of knowing if a candidate has actually read them or not. Several years ago, the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts purchased the rights to the Claudy books and prints their own edition of them. I have taught a couple of classes in the Lodges of Instruction and I used the original editions.

GrimoireA3 wrote: Does 'making good men better' or 'building better men' have no truth value?  Based on these frequent Masonic slogans, am I wrong to assume Freemasonry has higher than average standards?

Edited by WBScott - September/24/2016 at 8:40am

Well I did not mean to imply that a "good man" will automatically become a "better man" simply by virtue of his becoming a Freemason. My point to GrimoireA3 was that Freemasonry will not take a man with "Tyranosaurus Rex size skeletons in their closet" and make him a better man, even if we point them toward what Work will improve him. He is the one who has already disqualified himself from becoming a Freemason, not me.

Edited by WBScott - September/24/2016 at 10:57am

In my experience, if one has any doubts about entering into any endeavor, it is probably best that they do not enter into it. Perhaps these "skeletons" you speak of would not be a problem, I say, "perhaps." And perhaps the other things about Masonry that make you uncomfortable would not be a problem once you were in and could see everything in its proper context. But it's sort of like becoming a Ranger or SEAL- if one has any doubts whatsoever about it, they aren't going to make it. I don't mean to imply that becoming a Mason is anywhere near like becoming a Ranger or SEAL, but the self-doubt part is the same- it just isn't going to work if there is any.

droche wrote: Grimoire, In my experience, if one has any doubts about entering into any endeavor, it is probably best that they do not enter into it. Perhaps these "skeletons" you speak of would not be a problem, I say, "perhaps." And perhaps the other things about Masonry that make you uncomfortable would not be a problem once you were in and could see everything in its proper context. But it's sort of like becoming a Ranger or SEAL- if one has any doubts whatsoever about it, they aren't going to make it. I don't mean to imply that becoming a Mason is anywhere near like becoming a Ranger or SEAL, but the self-doubt part is the same- it just isn't going to work if there is any.

Agreed.

windrider wrote: Our secrets are probably the first thing he found. I'm not sure if he understands that we really don't care. We keep those secrets to show each other we are trustworthy, not because nobody else can know.

Here is why we don't care: When it comes right down to it, the thing that allows you to sit in a tiled (tyled?) Masonic lodge is not knowing any of the "secrets", it is having a valid dues card.... something he will (apparently) never have!

Edited by WBScott - September/28/2016 at 3:36pm