identification

hello brothers.
 as a new mastermason 3-23-10. i am still very new to the craft. i have a question to the identification and trial of fellow brotheren. i know there are certain questions and answers to try and validate men as masons. my mentor is old school and by the book. i asked him about it and he said the masonic grips should not be used unless you have prior knowledge of the man to be a mason. basically in the lodge. he said if i suspect a man to be a mason such as seeing a ring or pin and i engage in conversation i should ask to see his dues card to validate that he is a true mason. he mentioned nothing about any other type of identification. which leaves me very hesitant to show my pride by wearing a masonic ring.  i do not want to be put in a situation where someone questions me and i do not know the appropriate response. how should i approach this situation? thanks 

My Brothers, while I am very new myself, if a Brother wanted to "try" me out on the street, my reply would be ..... "This is not the place for that to happen and if he wanted to, I would be glad to meet him at my Lodge" I may be wrong but that is the way I would do it regardless. Being "tried" is supposed to be a way to gain admission to a Lodge if no one vouches for you.....atleast that is what I have been taught.

This topic has been spoken on many times before, however a refresher is always welcomed.  I love to hear some of the nonsense requirements that some people think they have a right to place on others.

I wouldn't see myself "trying" another Mason in public anyway even when I am raised, not sure what that accomplishes.  Nor would I appreciate being "tried" I don't think...what is the purpose in it unless you believed them to NOT be a Mason and representing themselves as one.  My best friend is a Fraternity guy and he has met several other Sigma Chi's and they really don't "Try" each other so much as they might as where they were a Sigma Chi at and they always shake hands.

If a person doesn't personally know me and I'm not seeking admission to a lodge, there's no reason to "try me" on my knowledge of freemasonry.  Besides, I don't remember that being a responsibility anywhere in the ob I swore to do.   Maybe if it were a masonic offense, it would cut down on this poo-poo. 

Edited by 150man - May/24/2010 at 2:52pm

150man wrote: If a person doesn't personally know me and I'm not seeking admission to a lodge, there's no reason to "try me" on my knowledge of freemasonry.

I agree with that.  I have been a MM 36 years and have never been tried or attempted to try anyone other than in the circumstance of trying to gain admission to a Lodge.

I do wear a Masonic ring and many times have been asked such things in passing as "I see you are a traveling man or what Lodge do you belong to, which I  respond to cordially.  I have also had strangers attempt to shake hands with a grip, to which I do not respond, because there are suspended brothers as well as others that might belong to a Lodge not recognized by my GL, or someone who has come into possession of knowledge that they are not justly entitled to.

In short, I do not know of any occasion beyond gaining admission to a Lodge or within the confines of a tiled Lodge when it is neccessary or appropriate to enter into esoteric discussions with a stranger.

The act of trying a bro. isn't one that i see often, but when the situation permits then by all means try him, because as i posted there are false claimers, but if you know yourself to be a MM, then you will know how to respond.

thank you for all your input. going back and reading my first post it may not have been as clear as i wished. i fully agree that a public place is not the time or place to be trying brethren. i am not looking to try anyone. i want to be an active member and travel to other other lodges and meet new people.  i know in ohio the by-laws say my dues card and photo id is all that is necessary to be vouched.  i just want to be prepared when i visit other lodges. if questions are asked i want to be able to have an intelligent response. thanks 

'Are you a traveling Man?' In a public setting I would probably just talk about how good it was to see other Brothers, and ask him/them what lodge they belong to, etc. No need to 'try' anyone in my opinion because I wouldn't talk about anything esoteric to a stranger in public anyway.

Flotown79 wrote: This topic has been spoken on many times before, however a refresher is always welcomed.  I love to hear some of the nonsense requirements that some people think they have a right to place on others.

If you are referring to the challenging of Masons in public , I too would love to hear what some have to say . I asked a question some weeks back in the PHA section , but never received an answer so I will ask again . Like I stated there , I have been a Mason for many , many years and have lived in my Masonic bubble of my jurisdiction and never paid much attention to what goes on else where in the Masonic world and now I have read that some feel they have the right to challenge others wearing Masonic insignias in public and I am wondering if their Lodges/GLs sanction this challenging of Masons in public ? And if they do ( or even if they do not but it is done because "that's the way it has always been done") why do some feel this is a part of Freemasonry and to what purpose does it serve if they are not trying to gain admittance into a lodge ?

I have never given the grip of any of the degrees to someone because they are wearing Masonic insignias outside of a lodge setting or in the case of instruction so I have another question . If a Master Mason does not know a man to be a Mason , why would you greet him with the grip of an EA , FC or a MM ? If this person is suspended or expailed or in some cases a family member or non-Mason wearing the ring of a true MM because they like it or because it was there Dad's or Grandfather's , wouldn't you be violating your OB ? Same with passing cars on the road , I have read that some try to give signs of an EA , or toot their horns three times when passing a car with a Masonic sticker on it while passing it , when anyone could be driving said vehicle ? I do not pay attention to car insignias or when someone honks their horns at me when out , but my wife was driving my truck one time and came home and asked me what this was * she gave me the sign of an EA* ( my windows are heavily tinted to the point of being illegal) , I told her I didn't know what it was, then she stated the other guy had Masonic stickers on his car also so it "had to be Masonic" .

When i was a EA me and my cable's kept each other sharp by asking From whence came you, as a FC we asked Are you a Fellow Craft but nothing after FC because being proficient as a Master Mason is Our personal resposibilty!

Stuntman98 wrote: For my lodge, in order to enter you will have to Walk the tylers sword, approach the alter in due form and know the Master word, you may still be tried by the WM or you may be tried by the tyler if he finds you suspect.

What happens to those that don't how to Walk.  Not every GL does that?

When did SOL #77 start this requirement?  It was not being done in '06-'08.

Hyksos wrote: 'Are you a traveling Man?' In a public setting I would probably just talk about how good it was to see other Brothers, and ask him/them what lodge they belong to, etc. No need to 'try' anyone in my opinion because I wouldn't talk about anything esoteric to a stranger in public anyway.

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Edited by cemab4y - May/26/2010 at 12:03pm

Stuntman98 wrote: We last did it around august 09, we had a bro in there who couldn't remember the word, WM wasn't pleased with him or the bro who vouched for because they both should have prepared for what they "knew" was going to happen.

If one does not know the word they will not be allowed entrance in my lodge.  It does not matter it they can walk, grip, recite, ect.  There are somethings a Mason never forgets.

edwmax wrote: Now, PHA seems to have a published set of questions & answers, but that is still just fun & games and not the correct method to verify a Mason.   ... It is a valid Dues Card from a recognized Lodge.

PHA has not.  There is a published set of questions and answers, and if a PHA GL's uses this as a method then they are wrong.  Hopefully none do.  Mine does not.

Flotown79 wrote: edwmax wrote: Now, PHA seems to have a published set of questions & answers, but that is still just fun & games and not the correct method to verify a Mason.   ... It is a valid Dues Card from a recognized Lodge. PHA has not.  There is a published set of questions and answers, and if a PHA GL's uses this as a method then they are wrong.  Hopefully none do.  Mine does not.

I was referring from to the MASONIC CATCH-E-KISM by M.J. Barrett from Macoy Publ.  http://www.macoy.com/MASONIC-CATCH-E-KISM-by-MJ-Barrett-P2326.aspx

I was not referring to published rituals.   This may not be PHA per say, but it seems to be very popular reference for "defending one's light".

Example:
1. Q - I see you were a penniless one too?
A - Having nothing of a metallic ********
2. Q – I see a spider on you; where did you get it?
A – It got on me ********
3. Q – What a pretty ring - - what did you give for it?
A – I paid for it dearly *********
4. Q – Why are you wearing that emblem?
A – I was *****

To see the answers get Raised, then buy the book......

Stuntman98 wrote: I am not aware of any set questions, i would assume if someone had set questions then somebody could get those questions and gain access to the lodge

The Masonic Catach-e-kism will not get anyone into a Lodge.   There are published rituals, Duncan's the most known.   These will not get you into a Lodge.  At least not if the Tyler or SD knows what he is doing.

CDenz wrote: I've never traveled to another lodge, I was only raised a few hours ago, but I would assume I would not be let into another lodge without strict trial and due examination by a lawfully constituted lodge of Freemasons.

You assumed right.

Now that you're Raised...exercise that new gift you have now gained......... and travel.

Hyksos wrote: DBlair wrote: Bro. Hyksos- Where in FL? I am a member of Gainesville Lodge #41, but I will be moving in August to Miami to attend law school. I will, however, be in Gainesville for the new GM's visit first visit to our district, which happens to be at our lodge. The 2009 GM gave me his pin, so I'm hoping to get the new GM's pin as well. Plus it's always a pleasure to meet the Most Worshipful. I got the pin when the GM sat in lodge for an EA degree to make sure everything went smoothly, the candidate was the first African American initiate at our lodge since its creation in 1857. Even got a picture with GM, me and basically everyone else in the lodge.

At the end of my initiation one of the brothers sstood up , during the part where they all spoke  to welcome me and said the following.....

aogop wrote: Many jurisdictions make it mandatory that EAs and FCs cannot make visitations to other lodges, unless with a sponsoring MM to come with them.  Our GL does not issue dues cards until a member is raised, pays the yearly dues and signs the book, so there really isnt a way a EA or FC could make a visitiation alone anyways- assuming the Tyler is doing his job of course.

I have been tried quite a number of times in the past in ny and ga. Once I was tried in the middle of parade in NYC
The funny thing was I half laughed througout the entire exchange because 1. I dont think he was expecting me to be prepared and 2. He was obviously oblivious that we were in the middle of a major parade!

I didn't take exception or offense nor did I pull out my dues card because I wanted to see how far
he was going to go with it. Eventually he tripped himself up and had to be off. LOL

Nowadays I wouldn't bother other than to tease the young brothers in my lodge to
test their profiency. Outside that it's a card and a hello....eventhough anyone can
create a card or purchase one from macoy

I was tried a couple of days ago for the first time.  I am visiting family in Knoxville, TN and visited my cousin's Lodge (Charles H. McKinney No. 433).  I couldn't understand why, but my hands were shaking terribly the whole time during the trial.  I guess I was afraid of running into problems with differences between the rituals.  I ended up stumbled through the Oath and questions, but gaining admission.  However, I heard a couple of days later that the Worshipful Master and Wardens were extremely impressed with my delivery.  I was dumbfounded.

"Mines for yours." Dues cards and ID to verify identity.  I'm PH in CA and we don't do the challenging in my lodge. Some Brethren may play around in other lodges but that's up to them.