Mastermason.com Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Public Masonic Discussions > Masonic Discussion Board
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - More Worthy and Extra Qualified?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

More Worthy and Extra Qualified?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
NobleShabba View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March/11/2012
Location: MD
Status: Offline
Points: 809
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobleShabba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: More Worthy and Extra Qualified?
    Posted: September/17/2014 at 2:04pm
Sometimes in the effort to make sure that our candidates for various groups are worthy and well qualified to join our ranks, we provide extra levels of "proving" to see how sincere the wish is.

For example, I have heard an active duty officer and brother (mainstream) say he would task anyone who asks him for a petition to write him an essay on why he should recommend them.

Another example, is to ask a "class" of brothers to organize and execute some community service action via their Blue Lodge before they can petition the Scottish or York Rite bodies.

What are your thoughts on this?
----------------------

DISCLAIMER: These are my comments, and mine alone - they do not necessarily apply to any group to which I belong!
Back to Top
Adept? View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August/30/2013
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 746
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2014 at 5:07pm
Keeping in mind that my first lodge turned out to be clandestine, and that many of the brothers were military, or prior military; my class and I were asked to do many things to prove how much we wanted to join. And prove we did... I think it should be an unwritten rule and standard practice. Maybe not to the extreme that i went through...but something.

Edited by Adept? - September/17/2014 at 5:09pm
"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
Back to Top
droche View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: March/03/2008
Location: Worcester, Mass
Status: Offline
Points: 2239
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2014 at 7:22pm
Asking someone to write an essay before one would sponsor them is, to me, a bit of an overreach but I suppose that is the gentlemen's prerogative, after all, it is up to him whether to sponsor a candidate. One has to be careful though about stepping over bounds in something like that. I would discourage such a practice or any practice over and above normal initiation requirements.

Asking a "class" of brothers to organize and execute some community service action via their Blue Lodge before they can petition the Scottish or York Rite bodies? This is not a requirement for initiation in Scottish Rite Northern Jurisdiction and as far as I know it is not a requirement in the Southern Jurisdiction or York Rite. Whoever is levying that requirement has no authority to to so, not to mention telling a Blue Lodge what to do, if I am reading your post right. I would think whoever is doing that could get into a lot of trouble. 
Back to Top
jdeal View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman


Joined: April/16/2014
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2014 at 7:45pm
Another thought about that is what if one were to compile this essay and come across something that would spoil the amazing experience they may be undertaking? Also TO lodges have people present essays and research between degrees does anyone know that to be accurate?
Back to Top
edwmax View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: November/06/2007
Location: Georgia, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 6945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2014 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by NobleShabba NobleShabba wrote:

...
For example, I have heard an active duty officer and brother (mainstream) say he would task anyone who asks him for a petition to write him an essay on why he should recommend them.  ...


I think if the sponsor doesn't already know the Candidate well enough without the essay, he shouldn't be signing the petition.    ... If he is just questioning the candidate's sincerity then he should be having a 'heart-to-heart' discussion.
"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."





Thomasville 369
Back to Top
Adept? View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August/30/2013
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 746
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 7:40am
I think we are getting hung up on the essay thing.  I just want to clarify that that is not what I was refering to.  The first brother I talked to, I didn't know, and he didn't know me; I just asked him about his ring, and it turned into a 45 minute conversation.  He gave me the name and contact info of another brother, who talked with me, and gave me some reading material, and the name and contact infor of another brother.  Basicly one sent me to another, who sent me to another... and then one day when i was walking through the hanger bay of my ship one of the brothers walked up to me and said "you still want to be a mason?"  I said yes, and he handed me a piece of paper with the address of the lodge, and a date and time to be there with the additional instruction of not to be late!  They made me work for it... they made me wait.. and they made sure I really wanted to JOIN... not just see what it was about. 
"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
Back to Top
Nero View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September/09/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

Originally posted by NobleShabba NobleShabba wrote:

...
For example, I have heard an active duty officer and brother (mainstream) say he would task anyone who asks him for a petition to write him an essay on why he should recommend them.  ...


I think if the sponsor doesn't already know the Candidate well enough without the essay, he shouldn't be signing the petition.    ... If he is just questioning the candidate's sincerity then he should be having a 'heart-to-heart' discussion.


Exactly . We have a petition of a Man sitting on our Secretary's desk now that no one will sign . He printed it off my Grand Lodge's web site and mailed it to us  . I was Master when we received it , not one person knows him so I called him and invited him down to chat with  us either over dinner before our stated communication or ON HIS SCHEDULE (anytime)  he stated he  would when he found time and never heard from him again  . The Secretary asked me what I wanted him to do with it , I said sit on it for the required time and then mail it back to him with a note as to why .

If he truly wanted to be a Mason he would have taken the time to come to the Temple and get to know us and we him .
Back to Top
Caution1010 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar
Bro. Never Give Up

Joined: November/16/2010
Location: 127.0.0.1
Status: Offline
Points: 2677
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caution1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 12:42pm
I see it all the time, this whole "proving" to be a mason.

If my gut feeling doesn't like  you or is not convinced that you'll make a good mason, I don't need to waste my time with the person.

Some do it just to inflate their ego...basically being bullyish.
I: 10/1/10
P: 12/3/10
R: 12/31/10

PHA-AL

"You can't trust those fellow-crafts...buncha rogues and murderers!"
Back to Top
droche View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: March/03/2008
Location: Worcester, Mass
Status: Offline
Points: 2239
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2014 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by jdeal jdeal wrote:

Also TO lodges have people present essays and research between degrees does anyone know that to be accurate?

The term "TO Lodge" is a broad term and requirements may vary from lodge to lodge in the realm of what we would consider "TO" lodges. But in other forums I have read, credible members of what we would consider "TO" lodges state that things like presenting essays and research papers are a requirement. So while I haven't seen it first-hand, I believe it to be true.

There is a big difference (IMO) between the requirements of a lodge or jurisdiction and an individual member making up their own requirements. I would think most grand lodges would discourage if not outright nix such practices.
Back to Top
NobleShabba View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March/11/2012
Location: MD
Status: Offline
Points: 809
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobleShabba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2014 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Caution1010 Caution1010 wrote:

I see it all the time, this whole "proving" to be a mason. If my gut feeling doesn't like  you or is not convinced that you'll make a good mason, I don't need to waste my time with the person. Some do it just to inflate their ego...basically being bullyish.


I agree with you that some may do it to stroke their own ego, but another view point could be that "gut feeling" for one is interpreted as "bias" from another, so how do we find something that helps us to determine that the profane really is interested?

In the "old days" if a person was interested (and with no Internet) - he would have to know a brother, or do his homework and come knocking at the door of the lodge building.

We could argue that with the increasing ease of access, it lowers the bar that people need to first pass to even petition; thereby increasing the need to find an objective way of filtering those who are just curious.

That being said, how can we be sure that the "test" used to prove this person is appropriate?   They may be great at essays but have poor morals; or they may be of sterling character, but can't string two sentences together properly on paper.

Just some thoughts, carry on!

Edited by NobleShabba - September/24/2014 at 3:32pm
----------------------

DISCLAIMER: These are my comments, and mine alone - they do not necessarily apply to any group to which I belong!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.