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The emblem: with the G, or without?

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Adept? View Drop Down
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    Posted: October/29/2014 at 1:45pm
My Masonic ring has the emblem with no G. I've gotten a lot of questions about it and i am curious...do you prefer the emblem with the G or without; and why?
"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eagle-751 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2014 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by Adept? Adept? wrote:

My Masonic ring has the emblem with no G. I've gotten a lot of questions about it and i am curious...do you prefer the emblem with the G or without; and why?


With " G " because I truly believe in " GOD " or Our " Grand Architect of the Universe ".  I think it should always be with the G. ( my opinion only )
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2014 at 4:10pm
But...masonry is world wide, and universal and in many languages. In many other languages...god doesn't start with the letter G. The symbol of the square and compass however IS universally recognizable no matter what language you speak.   

Edited by Adept? - October/29/2014 at 4:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cemab4y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2014 at 4:52pm
Quite true. You will NOT see the "G" on the square and compasses in most countries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2014 at 6:40pm
G could be "Geometry" or "Grand Geometrician" (ie: God) :and it could be the password of ???? (I'm not saying).

Camab4y is correct.   The G is not use in the S&C in most parts outside of the US.    I think it was at the Baltimore Convention of 1845/1850 the S&C with the G was purposed to be standard in the US.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2014 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

G could be "Geometry" or "Grand Geometrician" 

True, but those words also (in non-english speaking countries) may start with a letter other than "G"
"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2014 at 7:52am
First, you are ignoring the use of other letters or symbols in the S&C for God:   ... the Hebrew letter 'Yod'  or the 'Glory' emblem are also used, for example.  Both are references to God

Next, you keep seeing the 'G' as an English letter.   The 'G' dates back to about 3000 BC. Long before the English alphabet.   So this certainly indicates there is more to this symbol than meets the modern eye.    Also, the letter G is the same in several alphabets.    These languages have inherited Egyptian/Phoenician/Hebrew words which have the same meanings.

In my opinion   ... to see the mystery of the letter 'G' break it into it's parts.   That is a circumpunct and the small emblem that resembles a 'square' and/or the Hebrew letter 'Yod'.   The square can be in the form of right angle or the 'T'.   The 'Square' when properly displayed can also be the letter 'yod'.    "The Yod, shaped like a comma or a dot, represents the principle or origin of all things."   The beginning.


The circumpunct as explained in Masonic lectures is the definition of God, the universe, and the emblem of a Mason's obligation.  Now get past seeing the 'G' as an English letter; then its use by Freemasons of other nationalities, which spell God's name with a different letter, wouldn't matter.

Another reference    http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/letter_g.html

As I states above the use of the S&C with G as a 'standard' is an American innovation.  However, there are older documented use, so it was not an American invention.



Edited by edwmax - October/30/2014 at 8:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2014 at 10:40am
So... back to my original question. Do you prefer the emblem with or without the "G" ? I prefer it without.
"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anthony660 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2014 at 11:42am
Adept-To answer your question, I prefer it with the "G".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2014 at 1:11pm
I like the S&C with the Sun surrounded by the Glory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote js584 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2014 at 1:33pm
In short 

"G"  My Brother
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2014 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

I like the S&C with the Sun surrounded by the Glory.


Absolutely... Or the all seeing eye.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2014 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Adept? Adept? wrote:

Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

I like the S&C with the Sun surrounded by the Glory.


Absolutely... Or the all seeing eye.


As in the Past Master's emblem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Martin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2014 at 2:20pm
I prefer the S&C without a G in it as that is the way that the first Grand Lodge did it.

However, I thought you might be interested in an English perspective (mine) someone asked me a question about the G in the S&C and I answered with the following:

There is a lot of confusion surrounding who does and doesn't and why they do. In England, unlike our Scottish brethren but in common with our Irish ones, we do not place a "G" within the Square & Compasses when it is used as an emblem (rather than symbolically) of the Craft generally. Which is why its use within those jurisdictions that do so is a mystery to us poor English Masons.

I have yet to hear from a Scottish Mason the reason (from his Grand Lodge) they have adopted this emblem for the Scottish Craft at large. However, this leaves it open to interpretation, there are 2 main theories bandied about and until someone tells us the actual reason they are equally right and/or wrong.

1) Geometry is the science (according to Masonic lectures) employed by the Almighty (aka the GAOTU) to plan and implement his Universe.

2) According to another Lecture in the FC Degree we are told of a letter G found in a particular place which specifically denotes God the GAOTU. 

Our Irish brethren employ a "G" within the S&C but ONLY to denote that the wearer is an Installed Master and of course all of us who are qualified will know the "G" in question. To those who don't know it is information that awaits you when you are Installed as Master of your Lodge and it is neither of the 2 possibilities above.

It is unclear why so many Grand Lodges in America have adopted the Scottish variant especially those which were originally Warranted by either of the 2 English Grand Lodges. However, that may be exactly why they chose to do so.


Edited by Mike Martin - October/31/2014 at 2:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goomba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2014 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by Mike Martin Mike Martin wrote:

I prefer the S&C without a G in it as that is the way that the first Grand Lodge did it.

However, I thought you might be interested in an English perspective (mine) someone asked me a question about the G in the S&C and I answered with the following:

There is a lot of confusion surrounding who does and doesn't and why they do. In England, unlike our Scottish brethren but in common with our Irish ones, we do not place a "G" within the Square & Compasses when it is used as an emblem (rather than symbolically) of the Craft generally. Which is why its use within those jurisdictions that do so is a mystery to us poor English Masons.

I have yet to hear from a Scottish Mason the reason (from his Grand Lodge) they have adopted this emblem for the Scottish Craft at large. However, this leaves it open to interpretation, there are 2 main theories bandied about and until someone tells us the actual reason they are equally right and/or wrong.

1) Geometry is the science (according to Masonic lectures) employed by the Almighty (aka the GAOTU) to plan and implement his Universe.

2) According to another Lecture in the FC Degree we are told of a letter G found in a particular place which specifically denotes God the GAOTU. 

Our Irish brethren employ a "G" within the S&C but ONLY to denote that the wearer is an Installed Master and of course all of us who are qualified will know the "G" in question. To those who don't know it is information that awaits you when you are Installed as Master of your Lodge and it is neither of the 2 possibilities above.

It is unclear why so many Grand Lodges in America have adopted the Scottish variant especially those which were originally Warranted by either of the 2 English Grand Lodges. However, that may be exactly why they chose to do so.


I like the third idea of yours.  I'd never heard of it before but makes sense!
MM, RAM, RSM, KT, KM, SRICF

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