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Requirement of being a Freemason to join

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    Posted: March/20/2015 at 8:34pm
There has been some talk lately in my area of doing away with the requirement of being a Master Mason in good standing to join the shrine.  As it stands right now it is still a requirement.  What is your state/jurisdiction requirement (if any) to join the shrine, and do you think that the shrine should be an independent organization with no requirement to be a Freemason?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2015 at 8:55pm
As far as I know the requirements to join the Shrine come from Shrine headquarters and are uniform across jurisdictions.  As it is now one must be a Master Mason in good standing in order to join the Shrine. I hope it stays that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2015 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by droche droche wrote:

As far as I know the requirements to join the Shrine come from Shrine headquarters and are uniform across jurisdictions.

See, I didn't know that.  I'm not a Shriner, but I do know a few, and I have heard talk that they had been discussing dropping (or requesting to drop) the requirement so that they could get more members.  Apparently there is an issue that they have interested candidates who want to join the Shrine, but when they are told that they have to join the Freemasons first the interest dissipates.  The fact of the matter is, the Shrine is a more well known and recognized organization, and they don't have the conspiracy theory issues that we do on the Freemason side.  
Not to get too off topic, but I had a guy give me a hard time about being a Mason one day.  He made statements about it being a cult, and asked why we have such weird rituals and secrets, and even made some comments about satan worship.  He told me that if it had to be kept secret, then it couldn't be good.  Then he went on to ask me why I joined the Masons instead of a good organization like the Shriners.  I laughed pretty hard at that, and then I was overjoyed to enlighten him to the fact that one had to be a member of the Freemasons before he could join the Shrine.  Of course he didn't believe me... but oh well, I told him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merv S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2015 at 1:15am
'The fact of the matter is, the Shrine is a more well known and recognized organization, and they don't have the conspiracy theory issues that we do on the Freemason side.'  

That may well be true of America , but certainly not the case globally. Doing a little bit of research , the Shrine was founded in Australia [ New South Wales] in November 2010. A second State , Victoria followed this path as of late April 2012. What the current membership is I have no idea, but both jurisdictions stipulate that inductees must be Master Masons of good standing.

I tend to agree with Bro Droche about maintaining this requirement , because at least you have some idea of the potential calibre of the candidate.Not that this applies to me in my State of Queensland which has a reputation for  being behind the times. While we still are at odds with the rest of the eastern States over 'Day Light Saving' there  is precious little chance of us 'Banana Benders'  adopting the Shrine!!

For those of you that don't know. we are one hour behind Sydney summer time - for that read 25 years!! The myth that an extra hour of daily sunshine would put the cattle off milking and fade the curtains persists!
Cheers 
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Edited by Merv S - March/21/2015 at 1:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pscyclepath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2015 at 6:08am
In July 2013, Shriners International dropped the requirement of being a Master Mason for its two temples/centers in Arkansas -- Sahara and Scimitar.  So, if you petition here, are approved by the committees, and go thru the ceremonial, you can be a Shriner here.  This is apparently a test case on the part of Imperial Shrine to see if dropping the MM requirement will have any real effect, as well as a means to deal with the issue that the Shrine has been declared as clandestine throughout the grand jurisdiction of Arkansas for allowing suspended or expelled Masons attend tyled Shrine meetings while awaiting the Shrine's internal appeals process for expulsion/suspension.

The other side of the coin is that the Shrine is clandestine in all its forms in Arkansas.  No Arkansas Mason can be a member of the Shrine, nor participate in Shrine functions without invoking the penalty of expulsion.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WBScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2015 at 7:03am
Originally posted by Adept? Adept? wrote:

Apparently there is an issue that they have interested candidates who want to join the Shrine, but when they are told that they have to join the Freemasons first the interest dissipates.  The fact of the matter is, the Shrine is a more well known and recognized organization, and they don't have the conspiracy theory issues that we do on the Freemason side.

I am not a Shriner so I don't have any skin in the game, but...

I find it curious that The Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine was formed in 1870 and now all of a sudden there are some that believe that their ties to Freemasonry are causing a decline in membership. I don't get it. 

If someone's interest in the Shrine dissipates (to use your word) when they are told that they need to be a member of a Masonic lodge, then they need to talk to someone else in the Shrine because anyone who lets that potential Shriner walk away because of this, they are doing a tremendous disservice to both Freemasonry and the Shrine. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2015 at 8:31am
The Shriner's ties to Freemasonry has always limited the pool of candidates eligible to join the Shrine. Men wanting to be Shriner's but not Masons has always been there so I can't see where this requirement is directly causing a decline in Shrine membership, but yes, it is a question of semantics.

Not sure what you are saying when you say that one needs to talk to someone else in the Shrine because anyone who lets that potential Shriner walk away because of this, they are doing a tremendous disservice to both Freemasonry and the Shrine. Are you saying that one should not be turned away from Masonic membership because they only want to be a Mason just so they can be a Shriner? If so I have to respectfully disagree. Back in the 1980's, there were several applicants to my lodge whose only interest was being a Shriner. For the most part, these applicants were only interested in drinking and partying. Of course, there were exceptions. I haven't seen it that much lately but I'm sure it still exists. 

I feel that the Masonic/Master Mason membership requirement should not be dropped for two important reasons: First, every Shriner has a common bond with every other Shriner. This may not seem important on the surface but it is a glue that holds the organization together and would be lost should the requirement be dropped. Second, while I do not like to see grand lodges fooling with the Shrine, it is a check and balance that prevents things from getting too far out of hand. Unfortunately there have been financial and moral scandals in the past involving the Shrine. Not sure how grand lodge influence may have affected the outcome of these situations but to my mind it is good to have a check and balance there. This too would be lost should the Masonic requirement be dropped.

I am surprised and saddened to hear that the Grand Lodge of Arkansas still does not recognize the Shrine. Situations like this occur from time-to-time and are usually worked out. Don't know who's right or who's wrong but these things are usually worked out somehow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cemab4y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2015 at 9:10am
Here is an excellent page for anyone interested in the Shrine:

http://www.beashrinernow.com

and here is an excellent introduction to the Shrine:

http://www.khediveshrine.org/pdf/Shriner_Primer.pdf

I am an inactive Shriner. (Because of my international work). The Shrine is an independent organization, and not under the control of any Masonic lodge or Grand Lodge.

The requirements to petition and join the Shrine, are set by the Shrine. In the past, a man had to be either a 32d degree Scottish Rite Mason, or a Knights Templar Mason. Some years ago, the Shrine dropped this requirement, and made it so that any Master Mason in good standing could be a Shriner.

There has been some talk for some years, about the Shrine severing all Masonic requirements. These proposals usually do not advance at the Imperial Conventions where the Shrine makes their regulations.

There have been some problems in the past years, where the Shrine and some Grand Lodge have some friction. The GL of Arizona declared the Shrine "clandestine" some years back. The GL of Michigan got into a similar hassle. Now the GL of Arkansas forbids all Arkansas Masons from participating in the Shrine.

I hope that a solution can be worked out, that restores friendly relations between the GL of Arkansas and the Shrine.

Q: What is your state/jurisdiction requirement (if any) to join the shrine, and do you think that the shrine should be an independent organization with no requirement to be a Freemason? End Q.

The GL of Kentucky has friendly relations with the Shrine. There is no prohibition against a KY mason being a Shriner. As far as I know, the regulations of the GL of KY are silent with respect to the Shrine.

I am personally opposed to the Shrine having a complete "divorce" from Craft Masonry. The Shrine was started by Masons in 1872 (See the link above), so that Masons AND THEIR LADIES, could have social interaction, fine dining, and the moderate use of alcohol, OUTSIDE the lodge.

I believe that if the Shrine drops all masonic requirements, that it would be a disaster, and many Shriners would drop out of the Shrine entirely.

All I can say is, Stay Tuned.

Edited by cemab4y - March/21/2015 at 9:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WBScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2015 at 9:36am
Originally posted by droche droche wrote:

Not sure what you are saying when you say that one needs to talk to someone else in the Shrine because anyone who lets that potential Shriner walk away because of this, they are doing a tremendous disservice to both Freemasonry and the Shrine.

My reference was to the comment that if someone loses interest in becoming a member of the Shrine because they must first become a Freemason, especially since there are so many "conspiracy theories" surrounding Freemasonry. If someone really believes that Freemasons are out to rule the world or that we are some sort of devil worshipers, then they are obviously not getting that information from a Freemason or a credible source!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2015 at 10:28am
Originally posted by WBScott WBScott wrote:

 
My reference was to the comment that if someone loses interest in becoming a member of the Shrine because they must first become a Freemason, especially since there are so many "conspiracy theories" surrounding Freemasonry. If someone really believes that Freemasons are out to rule the world or that we are some sort of devil worshipers, then they are obviously not getting that information from a Freemason or a credible source!


I think I understand now. In other words if someone wants to be a Shriner but then learns that one must be a Mason, if such person buys into the conspiracy theories about Masons, then he loses interest in the Shrine. Yes, that would be unfortunate for both Masons and the Shrine. But there are also conspiracy theories out there about the Shrine. I recently did a web search on "Shrine International" and found a few hits on how awful the underlying purpose of the Shrine was. I didn't bother to look at them but they are out there as well.

 I only had one experience with a "conspiracy theory buff" whom I talked out of his beliefs. He insisted that, as a Mason, I was also a member of the Illuminati. I was able to convince him that there was no connection save for a few alleged members of the Illuminati who also happened to be Masons. He then immediately told me he wanted to be a Mason. I told him I did not know him well enough to sponsor him; if he was sincere, come see me in about a year when I knew him better. He never did. In the meantime, I was able to find out a little about his background and I am happy he never approached me again. True, it was only one experience but I suspect that by and large, most such people would not make good members of the Craft or the Shrine. Just my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2015 at 10:47am
Just to be clear I did not mean that an individual would decide not to join the shrine because they had a conspiracy theory about the Freemasons. what I meant was if an individual has a desire to join the shrine, but is told that they have to go through the process of joining the Freemasons, it may seem like an additional or unnecessary hoop to jump through to get to what they really want which is membership in the shrine. Also just to clarify I believe that the requirement to be a Master Mason in good standing should remain as it is in most locations, or be reinstated if it's not already in place in other locations. I do not feel that a separation of the two would benefit either.
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I have always seen the shrine as an independent organization comprised of masons.

However with the power struggle between the Grand Lodges and the Shrine organization, the AEAONMS took measures to halt this by stating that only those who have been raised to  the master mason degree can join; meaning effectively that you don't have to be an active member to join the lodge hence cutting off any hold one organization may have on the other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2015 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by Caution1010 Caution1010 wrote:

I have always seen the shrine as an independent organization comprised of masons.

However with the power struggle between the Grand Lodges and the Shrine organization, the AEAONMS took measures to halt this by stating that only those who have been raised to  the master mason degree can join; meaning effectively that you don't have to be an active member to join the lodge hence cutting off any hold one organization may have on the other.

I'm not sure I understand  your post. You cite a power struggle between grand lodges and the Shrine organization. I am only aware of one situation at present between the Grand Lodge of Arkansas and the Shrine and I am not sure it is a power struggle (although it well might be) as it is a dispute over legal technicalities. Are there more issues between grand lodges and the Shrine at the present time that I don't know about? There have been issues between the Shrine and grand lodges from time-to-time but these have almost always been resolved.

You then say that the Shrine took measures to halt this (power struggle, I assume) by stating only those raised to the MM Degree can join (the Shrine, I assume.) One always had to have been a Master Mason in order to join the Shrine. The Shrine dropped the requirement for members to also be York and Scottish Rite Masons but as far as I know that was not to avoid power struggles with grand lodges; they would have nothing to do with York and Scottish Rites.

You then say that "effectively that  you don't have to be an active member to join the lodge." Did you mean that one does not have to be an active member of Blue Lodge in order to join the Shrine? I don't understand what you are saying there, but one never had to be an active member of their Blue Lodge in order to join the Shrine. It was and is always encouraged, but not required. The only requirement is that one be a member in good standing of a Blue Lodge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2015 at 8:25pm
Droche,

If you go to Chris Hodapp's blog you can get the gist of the drama that has played out between the Shrine and various GLs. What the Imperial Shrine said is that to join the shrine you have to be a master mason. But if you were expelled from your BL, the Shrine is not required to expel you. They're claim is that the shrine is obligated to look out for its members and expelling them run contrary to that obligation. I'm paraphrasing of course, but that essentially what happened.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2015 at 9:59pm
Can you provide a link to any recent C. Hodapp's blogs that might give a current update of these various situations? I did a web search and found blogs in 2011 regarding Michigan in which the Shrine did not expel a member who pleaded guilty to a crime. Was that ever resolved? I know the situation in Arkansas hinges on Arkansas expelling a member but who was still a member in good standing in Iowa, so the Shrine did not feel they could expel him. There was also a situation in South Carolina, the details of which I don't know. I don't know of any other issues and could not find any on the Hodapp blogs that I could find. As far as I know, with these few exceptions, it is still a requirement to be a Mason in good standing in order to be/remain a Shriner. Regardless, it seems to me that relations are very good between the Shrine and the vast majority of grand lodges and that whatever disputes there are, are being exaggerated as regards the overall relationship between the Shrine and grand lodges. My opinion of course.

I just didn't understand Caution 1010's post where he seems to state that the Shrine required the MM Degree in order to join so as to avoid conflicts with grand lodges and that one no longer has to be active in order to join. Being a MM is and always has been a requirement to join the Shrine and being active in a Blue Lodge is not required but being a Master Mason in good standing of a Blue Lodge is. 

I was just very confused by that post and would like Caution 1010 to clarify it. Maybe I am missing something or something is missing from the wording of the post.

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http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/search?q=shrine

This should take you to his blog with all the posts relating to the Shrine. If it doesn't work just search shrine in the search box and it should take you to tis page
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http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2013/07/shrine-eliminates-mm-requirement-on.html

This one specifically talks about the MM requirement
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2015 at 1:47am
Yes, I looked at those sites. There is no recent information on the Michigan case. As I read the blog, Shriners International was holding off action on the expelled member until the final settlement of his court case; at the time of the blog he had not been formally convicted and I could find no other information on the final outcome either by the court in Michigan or by Shriner's International. I'd just like to know if the Grand Lodge of Michigan and Shriner's International are still going at it, so to speak.

On the second link you provided, it clearly states that the dropping of the MM requirement applies only to the two Shrine Temples in Arkansas, nowhere else in the Shrine.

I did find it interesting that apparently there is no hard and fast rule that if a Mason/Shriner is expelled from Blue Lodge then he is automatically out of the Shrine. I would hope that would be the case in almost all such situations, but I am going to discreetly ask around. It sounds to me on the Arkansas thing, that the Shrine would have expelled the member had he not been a member in good standing of another lodge. 

 I think we also have to remember that all this talk about a rift between grand lodges and the Shrine are based on just two situations and it sounds to me like people are making a tempest in a teapot. To me it sounds at this point like it's just a bump in the road. 


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Originally posted by BigBob BigBob wrote:

Droche,

If you go to Chris Hodapp's blog you can get the gist of the drama that has played out between the Shrine and various GLs. What the Imperial Shrine said is that to join the shrine you have to be a master mason. But if you were expelled from your BL, the Shrine is not required to expel you. They're claim is that the shrine is obligated to look out for its members and expelling them run contrary to that obligation. I'm paraphrasing of course, but that essentially what happened.


This statement is out of context.     The Imperial was making reference to being expelled 'UN-justly' and without trial.   Thus, the Shrine (and as Master Masons) has the 'obligation' to 'help, aid, and assist'  .... 'un-justly' expelled Shrine Masons.

Don't forget what the started the problems in Arkansas.     A Shrine Potentate was accused of UN-Masonic conduct at a Christmas party. His Lodge investigated and stated the Mason conducted himself in a 'gentlemanly' manor in handling a situation forced upon him that was not his doing.    The Lodge declined to bring charges.     ... The party was a celebration party for being elected to another term as Potentate at a Golf Club where another party were taking place at the same time. 

The aggrieved party was the opposing candidate for the Potentate's office who was also 'buddy-buddy' with the then Grand Master.  The GM expelled the Potentate by order and without trial.   An Attorney representing the Lodge attempted to file an appeal on behalf of the expelled Mason, he was immediately expelled without trial.   ... OH, the expelled Arkansas Potentate/Shrine Mason was still a Master Mason in 'good standing' in Iowa and the GL of Iowa refused to expel the Mason.

The Grand Master issued an Edict that ANY Arkansas Mason who drives a Crippled/sick child to a Shrine Hospital would be expelled.  Why would or should any Mason be expelled for helping a child ???   ... Things went downhill from there with the GM demanding that all properties of the Shrine in Arkansas be turned over to the GL and vacated.   Money fight???   These properties (Arkansas Shrine Hospital) are worth more than the Arkansas GL.    The Imperial Shrine is worth more than $10 Billion (before this recession).

Any accused Shrine Mason who has had proper 'due process' and trial, then expelled from his GL is expelled from the Shrine.






Edited by edwmax - March/24/2015 at 7:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2015 at 7:22am
Originally posted by droche droche wrote:

Can you provide a link to any recent C. Hodapp's blogs that might give a current update of these various situations? I did a web search and found blogs in 2011 regarding Michigan in which the Shrine did not expel a member who pleaded guilty to a crime. Was that ever resolved?   ...





It was.   The GL at the annual session upheld the conviction and expelled the Mason, 'Due process' completed.  The Shrine/Mason had already resigned from the Shrine.


Edited by edwmax - March/24/2015 at 7:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2015 at 7:27am
Originally posted by droche droche wrote:

  ...

I did find it interesting that apparently there is no hard and fast rule that if a Mason/Shriner is expelled from Blue Lodge then he is automatically out of the Shrine.  ....




Not true with the exception of being suspended for NPD.      ... But one problem is the GL Secretary fails to notify the Shrine of such expulsions & suspensions.  So some expelled Shrine Masons may be on the books until the expulsion is known.


Edited by edwmax - March/24/2015 at 7:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2015 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:




Originally posted by BigBob BigBob wrote:

Droche,

If you go to Chris Hodapp's blog you can get the gist of the drama that has played out between the Shrine and various GLs. What the Imperial Shrine said is that to join the shrine you have to be a master mason. But if you were expelled from your BL, the Shrine is not required to expel you. They're claim is that the shrine is obligated to look out for its members and expelling them run contrary to that obligation. I'm paraphrasing of course, but that essentially what happened.


This statement is out of context.     The Imperial was making reference to being expelled 'UN-justly' and without trial.   Thus, the Shrine (and as Master Masons) has the 'obligation' to 'help, aid, and assist'  .... 'un-justly' expelled Shrine Masons.

Don't forget what the started the problems in Arkansas.     A Shrine Potentate was accused of UN-Masonic conduct at a Christmas party. His Lodge investigated and stated the Mason conducted himself in a 'gentlemanly' manor in handling a situation forced upon him that was not his doing.    The Lodge declined to bring charges.     ... The party was a celebration party for being elected to another term as Potentate at a Golf Club where another party were taking place at the same time. 

The aggrieved party was the opposing candidate for the Potentate's office who was also 'buddy-buddy' with the then Grand Master.  The GM expelled the Potentate by order and without trial.   An Attorney representing the Lodge attempted to file an appeal on behalf of the expelled Mason, he was immediately expelled without trial.   ... OH, the expelled Arkansas Potentate/Shrine Mason was still a Master Mason in 'good standing' in Iowa and the GL of Iowa refused to expel the Mason.

The Grand Master issued an Edict that ANY Arkansas Mason who drives a Crippled/sick child to a Shrine Hospital would be expelled.  Why would or should any Mason be expelled for helping a child ???   ... Things went downhill from there with the GM demanding that all properties of the Shrine in Arkansas be turned over to the GL and vacated.   Money fight???   These properties (Arkansas Shrine Hospital) are worth more than the Arkansas GL.    The Imperial Shrine is worth more than $10 Billion (before this recession).

Any accused Shrine Mason who has had proper 'due process' and trial, then expelled from his GL is expelled from the Shrine.








Like I said, the Shrine was taking care of its member.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2015 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

Originally posted by droche droche wrote:

  ...

I did find it interesting that apparently there is no hard and fast rule that if a Mason/Shriner is expelled from Blue Lodge then he is automatically out of the Shrine.  ....




Not true with the exception of being suspended for NPD.      ... But one problem is the GL Secretary fails to notify the Shrine of such expulsions & suspensions.  So some expelled Shrine Masons may be on the books until the expulsion is known.

OK. That is pretty clear from the letter from the Grand Master of South Carolina to the Imperial Potentate which lists the Shrine regulations for retention of membership. 


For once I am glad I'm wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2015 at 4:36pm
In those letters a couple of points should be noted.    
  •  Most 'un-Masonic' conducts is also against Shrine law, But not all. The problem is who defines 'un-Masonic'.      In the case of Arkansas, a Shrine Mason who drives a crippled child to a hospital is not an 'un-Masonic' conduct even tho the GM claims it to be.  It is a normal course of business for the Shrine.  This act was not 'un-masonic' until the GM became PO'd because of the expelled Potentate was still a Master Mason in good standing in Iowa and retained Shrine membership.     ... Oh, the Potentate later resigned when the situation blowed-up out of control. 
  • Another point:    '... The lost of membership is effective when it becomes finial in the prerequisite body ..." In the case of Michigan, their Code specifically states sentences of expulsion do not become effective if an appeal to the GL is filed.  This was done by the accused Shrine Mason at that time.      ... So some GM's get po'd because the  Shrine Mason is not expelled from the Shrine 'instantly' as a result of their orders rather than allowing the Shrine to work though its own bureaucracy.  
  • Another point:   Temple meetings are not a Masonic Lodge.    Masonic ritual is not worked, no Lodge is opened, and Candidates are not made Masons as claimed by Arkansas.   Therefore, no Shrine Mason is in violation of his MM obligation by attending a Temple meeting where a suspended/expelled Mason might also be attending.   ....  The making of Masons was claimed by the GM of AK when the Shrine was declared Clandestine; and the violation of the OB was claimed by the GL of SC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2015 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by BigBob BigBob wrote:

Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:




Originally posted by BigBob BigBob wrote:

Droche,

If you go to Chris Hodapp's blog you can get the gist of the drama that has played out between the Shrine and various GLs. What the Imperial Shrine said is that to join the shrine you have to be a master mason. But if you were expelled from your BL, the Shrine is not required to expel you. They're claim is that the shrine is obligated to look out for its members and expelling them run contrary to that obligation. I'm paraphrasing of course, but that essentially what happened.


This statement is out of context.     The Imperial was making reference to being expelled 'UN-justly' and without trial.   Thus, the Shrine (and as Master Masons) has the 'obligation' to 'help, aid, and assist'  .... 'un-justly' expelled Shrine Masons.

Don't forget what the started the problems in Arkansas.     A Shrine Potentate was accused of UN-Masonic conduct at a Christmas party. His Lodge investigated and stated the Mason conducted himself in a 'gentlemanly' manor in handling a situation forced upon him that was not his doing.    The Lodge declined to bring charges.     ... The party was a celebration party for being elected to another term as Potentate at a Golf Club where another party were taking place at the same time. 

The aggrieved party was the opposing candidate for the Potentate's office who was also 'buddy-buddy' with the then Grand Master.  The GM expelled the Potentate by order and without trial.   An Attorney representing the Lodge attempted to file an appeal on behalf of the expelled Mason, he was immediately expelled without trial.   ... OH, the expelled Arkansas Potentate/Shrine Mason was still a Master Mason in 'good standing' in Iowa and the GL of Iowa refused to expel the Mason.

The Grand Master issued an Edict that ANY Arkansas Mason who drives a Crippled/sick child to a Shrine Hospital would be expelled.  Why would or should any Mason be expelled for helping a child ???   ... Things went downhill from there with the GM demanding that all properties of the Shrine in Arkansas be turned over to the GL and vacated.   Money fight???   These properties (Arkansas Shrine Hospital) are worth more than the Arkansas GL.    The Imperial Shrine is worth more than $10 Billion (before this recession).

Any accused Shrine Mason who has had proper 'due process' and trial, then expelled from his GL is expelled from the Shrine.








Like I said, the Shrine was taking care of its member.


Yes, we were.    ... But a better question is: why didn't the Masons of Arkansas help their own un-justly expelled Brethren.    The situation in Arkansas can only be corrected and resolve by the Masons of Arkansas.      
  • Should a Mason in Arkansas be expelled without a trial for driving a crippled child to a hospital?
  • Should a Masonic Attorney be expelled for filing an appeal on the behalf of his client?
  • Should the GM and Gl of Ak be able to confiscate Shrine Temple property & real estate simply because it members were Masons?    ... Wait until the GM & GL realize how many Arkansas Masons own their own homes!
"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2015 at 5:31pm
good question indeed... sounds like that Grand Master has seriously lost his way. unfortunate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cemab4y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2015 at 4:42pm
The ban on Arkansas masons having a masonic connection is total. All photos of masons in Shrine regalia have to be removed from the walls of masonic buildings in Arkansas. No photos of masons with a Shrine lapel pin are permitted. How sad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookslc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/31/2015 at 11:26pm
No, not a test case in Arkansas, rsther, due to the suppression of the Shrine by the GL, we modified the requirement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookslc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/31/2015 at 11:38pm
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:




Originally posted by BigBob BigBob wrote:

Droche,

If you go to Chris Hodapp's blog you can get the gist of the drama that has played out between the Shrine and various GLs. What the Imperial Shrine said is that to join the shrine you have to be a master mason. But if you were expelled from your BL, the Shrine is not required to expel you. They're claim is that the shrine is obligated to look out for its members and expelling them run contrary to that obligation. I'm paraphrasing of course, but that essentially what happened.


This statement is out of context.     The Imperial was making reference to being expelled 'UN-justly' and without trial.   Thus, the Shrine (and as Master Masons) has the 'obligation' to 'help, aid, and assist'  .... 'un-justly' expelled Shrine Masons.

.....

Any accused Shrine Mason who has had proper 'due process' and trial, then expelled from his GL is expelled from the Shrine.]

GAC: ctually, having served on a Shrine G&A for 15 years, the issue is whether it was a Shrine offense for which he was expelled, not whether there was due process. For instance, the first Arkansas case was over the Shriner being a tavern keeper. That is not a Shrine offense, so the Committee recommended he keep his Shrine membership. Our recommendation was accepted.   We do not look to the nature of the proceeding, but the nature of the offense, see section 323.8(c).







Edited by Cookslc - March/31/2015 at 11:40pm
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