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general question about ritual -- how best to ask?

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lightbound View Drop Down
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    Posted: October/02/2015 at 9:56pm
So I've got a general question about ritual to ask, and it's nothing that I think would violate any part of my obligations.  It also involves ritual that is widely available, but EVERYTHING is widely available online, so I'm still cautious.  

How best can I go about asking for opinions about it?  Not sure that the question itself is of any general interest, but I'd like to be able to ask it all the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2015 at 10:14pm
Get quarryman access and ask it in the "tiled" section of the forum that is for members of the Brotherhood only. (see my announcement titled "welcome visitors and guests" in the Masonic discussion forum.)  Or you can private message me, and i'll try to help as best i can and maybe assist you with asking the question safely.



Edited by Adept? - October/02/2015 at 10:16pm
"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lightbound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2015 at 10:19pm
Adept, thanks as always!  I figured I could count on you or WB.  :)  I checked out the "tiled" section, and one of the top threads is "this section is not really tiled", which after reading makes me a little hesitant to trust it, not to mention the fact that typing anything "sensitive" ever makes me feel like I might be violating an obligation! 

But yeah, this question is NOT something earth-shattering, but is of interest to me and a couple of brothers here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2015 at 8:34am
If a question is too sensitive to be asked on a forum I think your best bet is to ask people in your lodge, starting with your lodge's ritual coach, if it has one. If noone in your lodge can answer it I would kick it up to your grand lodge education section. Most grand lodges are eager to answer questions and educate their members.

I am my lodge's ritual coach and am eager to see your question, so I'll be keeping my eye on the tyled sections. Hopefully it can appear there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WBScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2015 at 11:12am
I second droche's advice to ask someone in your own lodge or Grand Lodge. While the ritual is similar in most jurisdictions, each jurisdiction has its own unique ritual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2015 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by lightbound lightbound wrote:

Adept, thanks as always!  I figured I could count on you or WB.  :)  I checked out the "tiled" section, and one of the top threads is "this section is not really tiled", which after reading makes me a little hesitant to trust it, not to mention the fact that typing anything "sensitive" ever makes me feel like I might be violating an obligation! 

But yeah, this question is NOT something earth-shattering, but is of interest to me and a couple of brothers here.


Please note your forum status is that of a 'newbie'.    The 'tyled' sections of the forum and their listings are hidden from your view.       .... The post you are referencing, is simply indicating that "not all forum members with Quarryman status are recognized by the GLs of every Quarryman member".    Therefore, 'Tyled' as in the sense of a 'Tyled Lodge' is not possible.    How you deal with discussions with another Quarryman who may not be recognized by your GL (aka: clandestine) is up to you.    ... Quarrymen are proven Regular (aka:mainstream) and PHA Masons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2015 at 10:05pm
The question is nothing secret. Here, I'll post the messages between he and I. Perhaps one of you can help him. All I could think of were the ritual sections in the cipher...but he said that's not what he is referring to. I still think he is referring to the ritual lecture sections and the Q&A associated with each section...

Sent by : lightbound
Sent : October/02/2015 at 10:20pm

I don't think this is anything too revealing. Why are there 3 sections in EA and MM but only two in FC?

Sent by : Adept?
Sent : October/03/2015 at 12:16am

what do you mean sections? like study sections? the Q and A?


Sent by : lightbound
Sent : October/03/2015 at 12:35am

Sorry! nono. The ritual for each section. There are three sections to the EA and and MM, though most lodges have dispensed with the third section of both (for various reasons). The FC has always had two sections and that's it. I'm wondering ab why.


Sent by : Adept?

i guess i'm not sure what exactly you're referring to. Sorry. I'd say go ahead and just ask in open forum... i don't think any non-mason will understand if i don't.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2015 at 10:07pm
And my answer to the question... I have absolutely no idea...lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote coach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2015 at 4:47am
Quote Sent by : lightbound
Sent : October/03/2015 at 12:35am

Sorry! nono. The ritual for each section. There are three sections to the EA and and MM, though most lodges have dispensed with the third section of both (for various reasons). The FC has always had two sections and that's it. I'm wondering ab why.


Because, the current FC degree was actually a part of the original EA degree when all this drama started. That's right, the current EA and FC degrees were one degree in the beginning and the Master's part, the current MM degree was the original FC degree.

And no, they were not as long as they are today AND all the drama was added much later. The Lectures were added much much later on.

To be a full member, you went through the then EA degree. To run a lodge, you went though the then FC degree.

Watch this from 10:00 through to 23:00 for more information: http://www.molor.org/trumanlectureseries#spring2012

Edited by coach - October/04/2015 at 4:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2015 at 5:53am
Well, I knew the part about there originally being only two degrees, but not the rest. Good info, thanks coach!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2015 at 7:11am
actually, IMO  ... I think there is a 3rd section in the FC degree. It just isn't labeled as such in Monitor. The Middle Chamber lecture has two parts.  The first part is the lecture by a Brother (S Deacon) of the 3, 5, and 7 steps of the Winding Stairs and the path TO The Middle Chamber.


In the Middle Chamber
, the lecture is continued by the Worshipful Master, who now gives instructions & lecture  for the letter "G', Charge, and how to apply the 3,5,& 7.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2015 at 8:11am
I tend to agree with ed. The Master's lecture in the FC Degree is a defacto third section although not classified as such. Why, I don't know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pscyclepath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2015 at 6:59pm
Best deal in your jurisdiction is to ask one of the brothers in your lodge.  Bro. Monte Fulmer is an excellent resource at Green Grove, or Brother Lester up at Wooster...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Warrior1256 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2015 at 1:49pm
I agree with others on this forum, It's best to discuss these things with brothers in your lodge. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote coach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2015 at 2:53pm
Yes, indeed do ask your Lodge Brothers, BUT by all means don't stop there, for if you limit yourself to your Lodge Brothers knowledge, you're not the Traveling man you profess to be and you'll be left with whatever limited Light they can share with you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lightbound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2015 at 10:16pm
Yeah, when I said "the ritual for each section", i meant "the ritual for each DEGREE"...i had sections on the brain.

Psychlepath, Bro Fulmer is one of the guys wondering about this along with me!  He's actually what motivated me to bring the question here and see what other people might think.

I like the idea that the Master's section of the FC is its de facto third section, but I'd like to know *why* it's not labeled as such.  I've gotten a little busy recently so haven't checked monitors back further than Webb in the early 1800s to see if any third section shakes out prior to then.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pscyclepath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2015 at 5:48am
The Arkansas work in the Fellowcraft degree has changed a bit over the years...and gotten a bit more streamlined in the process.  The Stairway lecture in the old Thornburg Monitor is quite different than that in the 1954 Monitor today...  and there is another version, the "Dewdrop Lecture," that is quite eloquent, and was lost somewhere else along the way...  I'm not sure yet just how all that came to pass, but am still pursuing it.  It is a beautiful degree..., the way we work it...
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