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droche View Drop Down
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    Posted: March/06/2018 at 8:21pm
Hi Grimoire,

The creation of the E-8 and E-9 rank to replace Warrant Officers was from a statement made by an AF official testifying before a congressional committee in the late 70's. Other than that testimony, which I read about in the AF Times, I had never heard that was the case, so I can't verify whether it was true or not.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrimoireA3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2018 at 1:03pm
Hi Droche,

That is news to me.  I never heard that the E-9 was a replacement for the Warrant.  Thank you. In the British Army an E-9 and a Warrant are interchangable.  The Warrant in the British military is considered an enlisted rank.  But the American service changed this and elevated the Warrant to 'officer' status and allows the Warrant to dine in the Ward Room with the officers, while the senior NCO's eat in the 'Chief's Mess' (Navy) away from the commissioned officers.

Historical digression:  On the HMS BOUNTY (1789) thirty year old Captain (Lieutenant) William Bligh was the only commissioned officer on the ship.  Fletcher Christian was 'master's mate' a warrant officer.  Edward Edwards, ship's carpenter, was also a Warrant, as well as the Sail Maker.  Everyone else was a rating.

I think the Warrant Officer rank is coming into its own and needs to become part of the chain of command.  The Warrant Officer really needs to ride herd, i.e. 'terrorize', on those E-8s and especially the E-9s'. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrimoireA3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2018 at 12:54pm
Hi Chief,

Thank you for that reply.  You mentioned that Warrants do not ride herd on Senior NCO's.  And that is something I am strongly suggesting to the point of insistence, at least with several of the letters I have written to senior Naval Officers.  I believe Warrant Officers need to ride herd on the E-7 through E-9.

Ancedote: On my first ship in 1976 (USS FULTON AS 11) my E-8 master diver did not report to the department head (O-2) for over two weeks that a man went over the hill.  Both myself (E-4) and an E-5 were upset about this but couldn't do anything about it (without violating the UCMJ).  And it was common for the E-8 to withhold information from the officer on a routine basis.  On my second ship in 1979 (USS RECOVERY ARS 43, crew of 50) we had one Warrant Officer, the enlisted loved him and the SNCOs feared him. And I believe that is the way it should be.

I still feel that the Warrant Officer needs to be expanded from Subject Matter Experts into the chain of command and be the bridge between the Ward Room and the Department SNCO.  And this was the gist of the letter I mailed to the Navy Captain at his MIT future warfare presentation.

I get the feeling this applies more to the Navy than either the Army, Air Force, or Marines.

I appreciate your responding to these posts - Sir!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2018 at 3:07pm
I was always told that WO's in the Army, Navy and MC were the most respected group in their respective services.

I was a special education teacher and had far more extensive training than regular ed teachers (not disparaging regular ed teachers and a teacher told her class that I was not a "real" teacher. I didn't have the luxury of rank and being able to put my boot anywhere near her. You are lucky you can put such people in their place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jdwalker519 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2018 at 6:50pm
In the Army, Warrant Officers are Subject Matter Experts.  We don't ride herd on E8s and E9s.  We manage systems and the people who operate them.

Senior Noncoms usually want to try a new Warrant Officer.  I had one tell me I'm not a real officer.  Uh, no.  Disrespect me and you'll quickly find my foot up your fourth point of contact, because I earned my rank....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2018 at 5:50pm
Yes. it is my understanding that Army Warrant Officers do not have to have a degree. Was never in the Army so I can't comment whether it is necessary so I'll defer to those with the experience. I do agree that for command assignments at the officer level, a degree is preferable, but not a guarantee that one will be a successful commander, but I guess that's where the up or out system comes in. It just seems to me that with all the services invest in pilots, and many pilots want to just fly, it seems a waste to rotate these people into staff jobs and what have you, and force them out if they don't make the cut at the staff and command levels. I have read that the AF and Navy now have critical pilot shortage levels. Same with the Canadians. In the late 70's, if you wanted to be a pilot but weren't a graduate of one of the Academies, they would laugh at you.

Funny you commented that Warrants are needed to keep an eye on the E-8's and E-9's. One of the arguments the AF used to not bringing back Warrants was that the E-8 and E-9 ranks were created to take the place of the Warrant Officers, so, according to them, bringing back Warrants would be redundant. Now you are saying that someone needs to ride herd on the E-8s and E-9's... I can't help but laugh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrimoireA3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2018 at 12:25pm
Hi Chief,

Thanks for this reply.  I was under the impression from my enlisted Navy experience that a Warrant Officer had to possess at least an AA degree.  I stand corrected.  Yet in 2006 the Navy changed things around for its Divers: they made diving a 'rate', dive school is now an 'A' school, and all diving supervisors must be a Warrant Officer (this is a fantastic change for the better).  Before the diving supervisor was either a '1st Class Diver' or an SNCO with a Master Diver N.E.C. (Naval Enlisted Code) - the Navy does not have MOS's.  So obviously the Warrant Officer is view much differently between the Army and the Navy.  My suggestion is to make all Warrant Officers part of the command, a bridge between the E-9 and the 0-1 (very much needed in the Navy).  I would like to see a 'Warrant Officer' type position in the civilian job 'corporate structure' if feasible.  Thanks again for your valuable opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jdwalker519 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2018 at 5:14am
I beg to differ...except in very special cases, we warrants do not command.  Also, there is no requirement for Army Warrant officers to have any degree at all, though I disagree with that lack of requirement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrimoireA3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2018 at 2:19pm
Hi Droche,

Good to hear from you again.

One of the Marine flight officers I spoke with over at MIT told me that pilots do just want to fly but after they get promoted over the rank of Major/LCMDR then they are assigned desk duties which causes a lot of military pilots to leave the service.  Warrants are trained as helicopter pilots allegedly because copters are too easy to take down in combat so the officer corps are protecting their own.

Regarding College:  I did a four year hitch in the Navy as an enlisted (1975-79, honorable discharge), then I went to UMass/Boston and got a BA in 1984 then an MA in 1987.  I have a basis of comparison.  College really does separate the 'sheep from the goats', i.e. an officer and a gentleman, from the ratings.  It isn't that you need a college degree to be a pilot, you need a college degree to be a commissioned officer (four year degree) or a warrant officer (two year degree) for any position as an officer in the U.S. armed forces.  And I totally agree with that.  For example, there is a light year of difference between the E-9 and the O-1 that, in my humble opinion, only the Warrant can bridge.  Warrant officers are important in the chain of command.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2018 at 11:06am
I was in the AF and they were dead set against warrant officers. In the late 70's Congress tried to get the AF to create a warrant officer pilot classification so that people could just fly and not get involved in the "up or out" system that commissioned officers have to go by. Many commissioned AF pilots wanted to just fly and not get involved with the ticket punching environment so prevalent then, and presumably now. Made sense to me, but the AF said it would create another layer of management they did not want or need. I thought it would do just the opposite. OH well, it seems the AF won that one. I don't see why one needs a college degree and be a commissioned officer to fly. If one has the aptitude and can pass the requirements, they should be able to do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrimoireA3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2018 at 10:47am
The first week in February 2018 I attended a seminar at MIT on future warfare topics.  The senior commissioned officer was a big proponent of more Warrant Officers in military, because the military is getting so high tech.  It seems the Warrant Officer rank is coming into its own.  I suggested that Warrants be more included in the command structure with more supervisory roles other than just tech reps.  My four year hitch in the Navy gave me exposure to Warrant Officers, and I think more W.O.s are needed in the shops to police the E-9s.  What are your opinions about the Warrant Officer ranks?  Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrimoireA3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2016 at 9:53am
SIR!

I respectfully request to ask what field is your Warrant?

Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sec'yBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2016 at 1:50pm
well done SIR,  the first time I see you I will salute you.

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Edited by Sec'yBob - August/12/2016 at 1:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adept? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2016 at 1:28pm
Congratulations Sir.  ClapThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KSigMason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2016 at 1:09pm
That's awesome!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jdwalker519 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2016 at 11:36am

My orders finally came through, so my promotion in the Army Reserve is now official!!!!

--CW3 J.D. Walker



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