What did Bacon mean by "Idols of the Theater"? |
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coach
Moderator Joined: October/23/2005 Location: Tampa Bay Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
Posted: September/07/2016 at 6:29pm | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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GrimoireA3
Banned Joined: May/05/2013 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 9:27am | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Rationalizing is another type of avoiding. |
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Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
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GrimoireA3
Banned Joined: May/05/2013 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 9:51am | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Yep. Even yours. |
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Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
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GrimoireA3
Banned Joined: May/05/2013 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 9:54am | ||||||||||||||||||||||
No you did not clearly address the topic question in your very first post, you once again relied on an obtuse definition from Wiki or some other site rather than draw upon your own knowledge of the subject. Come on 'fess up Coach - you don't know! |
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Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
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GrimoireA3
Banned Joined: May/05/2013 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 10:20am | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Hi droche, Thanks for being the only Masonic sane voice of reason on this topic thread. Actually, if you read my post a bit more carefully, you will see I clearly wrote 'if' I were a Mason. That is a hypothetical! In English it is referred to as a 'conditional' used to express wishes or hypothetical situations. Since I have no idea of what occurs inside the privacy of a Masonic lodge I expressed a hypothetical 'if I was' a Mason - then I would certainly ask some pointed questions to whoever is in charge of the joint. But maybe its time those questions were asked?
I find that disappointing.
Coach is college educated and a professional [just like me] - he knows better. And that is the rub. He must be made accountable for what he avers.
You're a good man droche, but I don't think coach needs an advocate, he can defend himself - which he does a poor job.
As I explained when I first visited the forum three years ago, I thought Freemasonry was a rich man's elks club, and that was it. It was my discovery of a Masonic Bible which further piqued my interest in Masonry, and I came to this forum as a blank slate with no pre-conceived notions: as an example: I never heard of an 'anti-Mason' before I visited these forums (why would there be an anti-Mason in the first place?). My disappointed, frankly, is the lack of sophistication in the responses from various Masons and the seemingly lack of education: most of the responses appear to be from practical men rather than from scholars. If Freemasonry pushes the 'self-made man' concept from the 1900s, then that if a great thing. I am currently reading a good book: 'THOMAS DUNCKERLEY: A Remarkable Freemason' (1982) by Ron Chudley, which outlines the career of a 18th century Englishman who rose from a gunner's mate to a high ranking and influential Mason in Great Britain - again a hagiography of a self-made man.
But those lectures is required reading. And don't take yourself for granted, those lectures/required reading is deep philosophy!!! Which what struck me from delving into the primary Freemason literature here at the Boston Public Library in the first place (good stuff to read!!).
So that's the lodge I will have to join?
Again, the required lectures are required reading (because the lectures are also printed?). Again, droche, thank you for this intelligent rebuttal. |
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Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
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GrimoireA3
Banned Joined: May/05/2013 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 10:37am | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Here's the location of the origin. Please read carefully, From the topic question thread: Is Immortality Possible If Man Has No Soul? Coach Posted: August/31/2016 at 12:23 pm. Please read what he states and that's why I started a new thread on Baconian Idolatry. |
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Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
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GrimoireA3
Banned Joined: May/05/2013 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 10:39am | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Your silence is deafening. Edited by GrimoireA3 - September/08/2016 at 10:39am |
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Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
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GrimoireA3
Banned Joined: May/05/2013 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 10:42am | ||||||||||||||||||||||
The origin of this thread: From the topic question: Is Immortality Possible If Man Has No Soul? Coach Posted: August/31/2016 at 12:23 pm Please read post carefully. |
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Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
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droche
Quarryman Joined: March/03/2008 Location: Worcester, Mass Status: Offline Points: 2243 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 1:22pm | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This has been previously discussed and as I stated, I am more clear about it now. You also wrote that if we did not know an answer, just admit it. That is what I was doing.
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droche
Quarryman Joined: March/03/2008 Location: Worcester, Mass Status: Offline Points: 2243 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 2:13pm | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Grimoire,
Referring back to your response from my previous post: i did not misread your post. I knew you were presenting a hypothetical situation. My response is the same. You should be able to tell from another post I made, I too find it disappointing that all Masons, not just Worshipful Masters, are not given more education in so-called "esoteric" matters. That being said, assuming such education were given, it would still be a stretch to think that something along the lines of the writings of Francis Bacon would be included. I also wrote in another post that most Masons have families, work and the day to day working of the lodge, which are just as important as the "esoteric." I don't know how else to put it. Freemasonry simply doesn't get as "deep" as you are expecting or seem to think it should. I am not advocating for Coach. I simply said I was quite certain that his source of knowledge of certain matters came from outside of Freemasonry. I can't see where I am advocating, just clarifying. I also gave him room to comment on his own if he so desired. My disappointed [sic], frankly, is the lack of sophistication in the responses from various Masons and the seemingly lack of education: most of the responses appear to be from practical men rather than from scholars. Frankly, this is where I get frustrated. For three years I and others have been trying to explain to you that Freemasonry is more practical than scholarly. There certainly are scholarly aspects, and perhaps these should be emphasized more, but it is never going to rise to the level that you appear to think it should, nor should it. Freemasonry attempts to reach out to men from all walks of life. To make it a purely scholarly organization would, in my opinion, would make it elitist. There are Masons who would like to see it that way but I am not among them. We have Lodges of Research a Mason can join if that aspect interests them. So that's the lodge I will have to join?[Grand Orient de France] I don't know if there are any lodges in the local area under the Grande Oriente de France. A few years ago some clandestine lodges elsewhere in the US affiliated with the GOdF, but I think they soon left or were kicked out. In any event, the decision is up to you, but I don't recommend it. I don't know what else to tell you. Bear in mind that there are many "scholarly" Masons out there, but they don't all come to forums. Have you searched for other Masonic forums where the discussions might be more along the lines you seek?
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GrimoireA3
Banned Joined: May/05/2013 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 4:24pm | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Resembles a psychiatric explanation for a delusion or delusional thinking? |
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Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
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GrimoireA3
Banned Joined: May/05/2013 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 4:28pm | ||||||||||||||||||||||
[QUOTE=droche] I am trying to keep this thread on track, perhaps naively so, and I want to learn about Bacon's "Idols of the Theater." I've asked for some context about the term. Let me put it in another way: Can someone give a real world example?
I asked how it might relate to Freemasonry, if at all. I received the answer: Two phrases apply: 1) Because Tradition 2) Because Grand Lodge I don't understand that answer. Nobody understands the answer. Thanks droche for asking these questions. |
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Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
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GrimoireA3
Banned Joined: May/05/2013 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 4:35pm | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Hi edwmax, Thank you very much for going through the time and trouble posting this nice set of definitions. But I already came across them and did not fully comprehend their meaning as applied to real life situations, particularly to discussion. |
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Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
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droche
Quarryman Joined: March/03/2008 Location: Worcester, Mass Status: Offline Points: 2243 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 5:09pm | ||||||||||||||||||||||
But he answered it, or clarified it and I do understand it now. I had to understand "Idols of the Theater" before I could understand the answer. I still don't fully understand Idols of the Theater nut my understanding is better now.
Edited by droche - September/08/2016 at 5:10pm |
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edwmax
Administrator Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 7098 |
Posted: September/08/2016 at 9:40pm | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This thread is confusing. The opening question (title) and post implies a discussion of Bacon's Idols. However, the OP bashes replies which does give a definitive answer. And would not give a reference to where he read Bacon's statements (until today). ... The fact is the OP was looking for a definition to Coach's use of a Bostonian reference to the 'Idols of the Marketplace' in another thread and apparently thought all Masons would understand the reference. ... This looks like a PIssING contest between the OP & Coach.
This thread seems to have been 'on topic'; 'off topic'; 'on topic'; 'off topic' again and again. In fact it has never been 'on topic' because it was about a comment made in another thread. This thread is LOCKED! and will be hidden in 24 hours. Admin |
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"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."
Thomasville 369 |
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