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International F&AMM VS. Prince Hall |
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JLHSMITH 
Quarrymen 
Joined: July/14/2009 Location: Little Rock, AR Online Status: Offline Posts: 134 |
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 Posted: August/11/2009 at 5:26pm |
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What really gets me is how could the founders of these orgs (IFAM, etc) actually look men in the eye and tell them they were actually legit. Money, I'm sure was a motivator...but it just amazes me at what some men who claim to be masonic can do without reservation.
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Unity Lodge #454
Mohammed Temple #34 J.L.H.Smith Consistory #76 MWPHGLARK |
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searching.knowledge
Newbie 
Joined: August/18/2009 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 1 |
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Posted: August/20/2009 at 11:35am |
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Greetings all, I am new to this forum and have been going over the past post. This one I find interesting and insulting at the same time. The originator of this post was a IF&AMM on 19 April and a healed PHA mason by 1 June. I am sorry to say that though I am happy that cassellcausey found a Lodge to take him in, it is insulting that a lodge would do such a thing as "healing" a clandestine mason. This is a spit in the face to the Brothers that have spent months and years to become a MM. I can see how the AF&AM lodges would resent the acceptance of PHA lodges. It is the pratice of healing fake masons and the pushing through of new mason that is hurting the Frtaternity and making the faitful few question the WM's. Though it is not my place to make this decision, I fill that this is a bull crap pratice. Quantity over quality, that seems to be the pratice. More money seems to be the driving force behind freemasonry these days. Sad. < ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">< name="ProgId" ="Word.">< name="Generator" ="Microsoft Word 11">< name="Originator" ="Microsoft Word 11"><>
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BHGAHPIIFBTDTIU
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JLHSMITH
Quarrymen
Joined: July/14/2009 Location: Little Rock, AR Online Status: Offline Posts: 134 |
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Posted: August/20/2009 at 3:32pm |
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I'm sorry you feel that way. I personally have no problem with a misinformed man being "healed" into PHA, legitimate masonry. |
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Unity Lodge #454
Mohammed Temple #34 J.L.H.Smith Consistory #76 MWPHGLARK |
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tm274
Moderator Group 
The True Time Traveller .·. Joined: March/31/2008 Location: West.Australia Online Status: Online Posts: 2158 |
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Posted: August/20/2009 at 6:47pm |
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The Clandestine Lodge did not tell him that he could not sit in Lodge with Mainstream and that visitation rights of his "Clandestine" Lodge were very limited.
He joined this forum, then found out and asked us how he could rectify the situation.
Being the good little masons we are.....we gave him that advice and he took it and followed up, by contacting the GL in his State and then finding a Lodge near him in which he could join. He was not "solicited" in any way as that is against our Principles.
He "demitted" from his Lodge and joined the one that told him the truth.
How this is a "spit in the face of the Brothers that have spent months and years to be a MM" is beyond me.
Perhaps if that Clandestine Lodge had been more truthful and told him everything.........then he would have had a choice and then made a decision, one way or the other.
He joined Mainstream of "his own free will and accord" and from all reports.....he is very happy.
He now knows where he stands today......amongst true and truthful men.
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Initiated : 23rd April 2002
Passed : 25th June 2002 Raised : 24th Sept 2002 Atheism is a non-prophet organization. If a Mod doesn't get you, don't relax....Max will. |
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edwmax
Admin Group 
Chief of Staff of the Admin Group Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Georgia, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 2114 |
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Posted: August/20/2009 at 9:48pm |
It is up MMs now to accept him as such, knowing that the Brother was lied to in the beginning. |
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***************
EAs don't bite the Admin, We do know how to Muzzle you! *************** PM of Cairo Lodge #299 (Cairo, Ga.) |
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bama
Newbie
Joined: July/26/2009 Location: alabama Online Status: Offline Posts: 1 |
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Posted: August/22/2009 at 11:47pm |
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I have reserched this matter bro. banks started out in pha in georgia and left with several bro's and started a modern free lodge and bro. banks left modern free and started ifam claiming their joining fee was lower and the endowmemt after death would go to the beneficiary the truth of the matter is their state GL really are not in control of thier states detroit is so what is the use of claiming to have a GL IN A particular state all the money goes to detriot the Supreme president get's fat but the local lodges and GL'S suffer is this organization about titles what can a GL do if it always broke and what power does a STATE Grand master have if he can not control his jurisdiction without the approval of a supreme grandmaster say so i though God was the only Supreme wake up people if the order has nothing to give back to your community why are you in it is it that hard to see that they are using you they have no legal legs to stand on who has ever heard of star chapters with no patron they dont even give you a birth certificate proving you all were never born! |
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bama
Newbie
Joined: July/26/2009 Location: alabama Online Status: Offline Posts: 1 |
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Posted: August/22/2009 at 11:55pm |
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i dont believe ifam is for real too many chiefs president, Supreme GM's AND District G.M's State GM's
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Flotown79
Moderator Group
King of the Smilies Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Hoover, AL Online Status: Offline Posts: 3107 |
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Posted: August/23/2009 at 1:29am |
Since PHA does not recognize IF&AM members, technically they are not considered Masons. I feel in order to join, if you are not recognized as a Mason, you should have to go through all degrees. This issue is no different from me wishing to join a "MS" GL. Since my GL is not recognized by any "MS" GL, I am offically (not personally) considered a Mason and would have no choice but to petition and go through all the degrees. |
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"Even with all of the recent advances in Masonic Education, there still remains no effective means by which you can communicate with a brother that already knows everything." - Ron Robinson |
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JLHSMITH
Quarrymen
Joined: July/14/2009 Location: Little Rock, AR Online Status: Offline Posts: 134 |
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Posted: August/23/2009 at 6:26am |
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I feel you on that. I have seen instances where going through all degrees is bypassed if an clandestine was "proficient" before petitioning.
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Unity Lodge #454
Mohammed Temple #34 J.L.H.Smith Consistory #76 MWPHGLARK |
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Stuntman98
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Joined: August/25/2009 Location: World Wide Online Status: Offline Posts: 1 |
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Posted: August/25/2009 at 6:24am |
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I fould like to first say that i think this forum is a beautiful thing, but there was one thing that rubbed me the wrong way,... Searching.Knowledge, not only is it the right thing to do, but it is the smart thing to do,.. Bro. Causey had every right to seek light, the right light. I know O.E.S.' who are international have do not know that they are being wronged, from the outside, it looks completely legit, so after finding out the he was being fooled he still had the drive and wanted to become a legit Master Mason. |
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Flotown79
Moderator Group
King of the Smilies Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Hoover, AL Online Status: Offline Posts: 3107 |
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Posted: August/26/2009 at 5:17pm |
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Within my GL "healing" is left to the WM and the DD. After speaking to a few DD's, a person wishing to be healed will go through all degrees again within their jurisdiction. I have a few more to call.
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"Even with all of the recent advances in Masonic Education, there still remains no effective means by which you can communicate with a brother that already knows everything." - Ron Robinson |
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JLHSMITH
Quarrymen
Joined: July/14/2009 Location: Little Rock, AR Online Status: Offline Posts: 134 |
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Posted: August/26/2009 at 5:29pm |
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I have seen "healing" being done either way, whether it be to reobligate or take degrees again. No set standard in AR to my knowledge to date, so I would almost assume WM/DD/GM make that call. Does anyone here have a personal preference? To be honest it never made me a difference in all my 10 years of travel. I always felt as long as they were "healed" (via oath of fealty/reobligation or take degrees) they're good.
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Unity Lodge #454
Mohammed Temple #34 J.L.H.Smith Consistory #76 MWPHGLARK |
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Flotown79
Moderator Group
King of the Smilies Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Hoover, AL Online Status: Offline Posts: 3107 |
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Posted: August/26/2009 at 5:29pm |
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Let me clarify one thing. If your GL allows the "healing" process, that is fine a dandy. I have no problem with what another GL does. (most of the time) I will always accept you as my Masonic brother if our GL's are in recognition of one another.
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"Even with all of the recent advances in Masonic Education, there still remains no effective means by which you can communicate with a brother that already knows everything." - Ron Robinson |
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Mabuhay
Newbie
Joined: September/08/2009 Location: Military Online Status: Offline Posts: 2 |
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Posted: September/08/2009 at 8:14am |
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I will accept all of you as my worthy brother regardless of PHA/PHO/MS/ or whatever GL your lodge yeilds to... So long you prove to me you are worthy brother by heart...
I am PHO mason and I am proud to say it for it is the only lodge who answer my knocking...
By history of search of the light i was rejected by the MS due to I am a Pacific Islander ( I Think Anways)...
I am very thankful for PHO on giving me the Light!
IF YOU ALL WORTHY BROTHERS GET LOST ON MY ISLAND AND PRESENT THE DISTRESS SIGN SEE TO BELIEVE YOU SHALL RECIEVE RELIEF SO LONG WITH IN MY BOUND TO GIVE...
Travel the light brothers always with sincerity....
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Flotown79
Moderator Group
King of the Smilies Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Hoover, AL Online Status: Offline Posts: 3107 |
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Posted: September/08/2009 at 1:09pm |
You then, are not following the rules and regs of your GL. Why be a member if you refuse to follow the rules? Not to sound mean, but since you have already admitted that you care little for rules and regs, it might have been a good thing for a lodge to reject you. (At least for them) Edited by Flotown79 - September/08/2009 at 1:13pm |
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"Even with all of the recent advances in Masonic Education, there still remains no effective means by which you can communicate with a brother that already knows everything." - Ron Robinson |
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Mabuhay
Newbie
Joined: September/08/2009 Location: Military Online Status: Offline Posts: 2 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 2:49am |
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Brother Flowtown,
I know my obligation and definitely to include the BY-LAWS to which I yeild to... As currently, with my continuious membership of my lodge, we do NOT have a list of groups/clandestines that we do not welcome as brothers...
In refer to the PHA and PHO thing, I would like to share this book i came to stumble through my personal research:
http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/libro_bessel_Shadows.html
This is my favorite compare to other articles I have read. Also the book: "Freemasons-Inside the World's Oldest Secret Society" By H. Paul Jeffers
To me, all these issues/dissensions are the products of the new age (SPECULATIVE MASONS)... I times envy the Operative masons... I hope you all agree with me when I say that masonry has differrent origin/birthplace, from the french stonecutters, Steinmetzen (Germans), Pierre metier (French), Stone-makers (English), and so on...
All MASONs but differrent origin... Fraternal masonry was the product of the UNION of all crafters. Through this, they have same ideals, concepts, and agreements...
So much things to lay out but biggest question would be "Would you call them false also since they all not all in the same origin/birthplace?"
I am glad I was rejected from MS. A lodge from Mississippi... I never thought there was a masonry only "WHITE" masons... Hence coming from a family with a long bloodline history in masonry, I thought masonry overlaps racism until i came to be station in Mississippi...
Call it whatever it is in refer to my previous statement, my intention is sincere...
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Flotown79
Moderator Group
King of the Smilies Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Hoover, AL Online Status: Offline Posts: 3107 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 9:49am |
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Please contact your leadership in reference to groups that you don't "welcome."
Why do members of IF&AM keep saying "This American issued charter empowers, International Masons to the same rights as those charters issued directly from the Grand Lodge of England...." This statement is not true and your leadership knows this. I don't care how you attempt to water it down. To be a regular GL you must trace back to England, Ireland, or Scotland. There are no exceptions, and Mr Banks knew this. After all he was once a PHA member, then a Modern Free member then finally started his own after Modern Free was exposed in the courts. With you way of thinking anyone can go to their respective state, get incorporated, issue themselves a charter, and become a GL. It does not work that way. We have rules and regs that must be followed. No Masonry is not an all white thing. Within predominately white GL's there are minority members, minority WM's, and if not mistaken on has a black man as its GM. It is not fair or right to attempt to label something "white" because of the actions of one lodge. I wont let you go there. The Masonic organization is not a 'black or white' thing, it never was. It is in fact a 'just and regular' thing. It is more universal than any fraternal organization to date. We as Speculative Masons choose to follow guidelines, rules and regulations in order to obtain what we sought. The system that we practice today put guidelines in place in regards to regularity and legitimacy. We all took that oath to uphold that obligation. Please tell me, who issued the charter to Mr Banks? |
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"Even with all of the recent advances in Masonic Education, there still remains no effective means by which you can communicate with a brother that already knows everything." - Ron Robinson |
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cassellcausey
Groupie 
Joined: April/19/2009 Location: Ohio Online Status: Offline Posts: 43 |
Quote Reply
Posted: September/11/2009 at 10:24am |
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Had to come back on this... U can lead a horse to water but u can't make him drink... I was the horse and this is why i asked the question.... Now I am drinking and the water is good... One thing i found out is that PHA is getting a bad name from these other lodges that are not legit or clandestine what ever u want to call it... I would never turn a brother away but it is my duty to show him the truth.... If u want to start your own FRAT... go ahead... That is your right... But leave the S&C where it belongs and don't add to it... That is just not right. I was one of the brother that was being miss lead by IFAMM... and when i asked questions they would get upset.... WHAT IS THAT??? |
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M.W.P.H.G.L. of Ohio
Bro. Causey |
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Addison_II
Quarrymen
Joined: October/31/2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 104 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 11:48pm |
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I constantly hear the PM. Bessel / PM. Roundtree book thrown into the discussion for the Regularity of Prince Hall Origin. We have to remember that even though a group may be Regular in practice, it can still be considered Clandestine legally.
Now to discuss Regularity, how is P.H.O. or IF&AM regular? P.H.O. is a left over body from Grand Lodges that withdrew from it after a failed attempt to create a National Uniformed Body concerning the ritualistic and administrative functions of Freemasonry among the Prince Hall branch of Freemasonry. The fact that it continued to operate with out a charter classifies it as Clandestine. The fact that it operates a NGL structure in place of the current established structure makes it irregular. IF&AM was both clandestine and irregular from its inception. It never received authority to operate from any established and legal Masonic Authority. The American Charter it received was basically an article of incorporation which can be given to anyone as long as they meet the legal requirements of the issuing body (which is not Masonically governed but rather has authority from a State Agency) It did not have 3 lodges, who had legal charters, come together and notify their original Grand Lodge(s) of their intentions to start a new Grand Lodge and surrender their charters. It was the brainchild of a former Mason who had been expelled and wanted to start his own order. That isn't legal in any sense of the word and all who trace their lineage to such a group are not Masons. It has nothing to do with the origin of the members but rather the origin of the authority of their lineage. Even in the Operative Days, you had to have authority to work and receive wages as such. You couldn't just receive those wages because you wanted to. You had to be proven as a craftsmen in order to receive them and that proof is what IF&AM as a body lacks. |
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m.lewis
Quarrymen
Joined: July/07/2009 Location: Oakland,CA Online Status: Offline Posts: 55 |
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Posted: October/20/2009 at 7:32pm |
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I just ran into 2 IF&AM guys today and I knew 1 from before I was raised but thanx to this forum I must suggest that they get healed but definitely they do not have the right to wear S&C. And one was the guy that charged me and said he could take my light!! Thanx for the info brethren.
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Good Hope Lodge #29 Oakland, CA
Entered: 2/26/09 Passed: 4/17/09 Raised: 9/25/09 MWPHGLCA |
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squarehead
Quarrymen
Joined: September/02/2008 Location: Taos, NM Online Status: Offline Posts: 586 |
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Posted: October/20/2009 at 8:18pm |
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Edited by squarehead - October/20/2009 at 8:46pm |
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MWPHGLofTX F A&M
NEW LIGHT LODGE#242 MT. SINAI CHAPTER #42 SOUTH CENTRAL COMMANDERY #37 KILLEEN, TX Y.B.Y.S.A.I.A "Seek first to understand, Then to be understood." IN HOC!!!! |
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brother felix
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Joined: November/06/2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 30 |
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Posted: October/22/2009 at 9:41am |
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Im coming late to this conversation, But have been watching it for some time now. As for the modified S&C, it was borrowed from Modern free. Its the key to the ivory locks.
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Brother Valderrama
Obadiah #001, Norfolk, VA "To gather what is scattered" |
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Flotown79
Moderator Group
King of the Smilies Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Hoover, AL Online Status: Offline Posts: 3107 |
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Posted: October/22/2009 at 10:09am |
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This is were the key comes from. The courts ordered them to stop using the S&C so they added a key to it.
MWPHGL of GA, F&AM vs Supreme GL, MF&A Colored Masons of the World Judgment: Whereupon, it is considered, ordered and adjudged, That the defendant, Supreme Grand Lodge, Modern Free and Accepted Colored Masons of the World, be, and it is hereby, enjoined, collectively and individually, including the agents, officers, associates and representatives, (a) From appropriating and employing the ritual ceremonies of the plaintiff and using any insignia, name, emblem, badge, symbol or paraphernalia of the plaintiff; Outcome: The court entered judgment for plaintiff and issued an injunction, since defendant's conduct constituted an attempt to deceive the public and benefit from the use of plaintiff's mark. |
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"Even with all of the recent advances in Masonic Education, there still remains no effective means by which you can communicate with a brother that already knows everything." - Ron Robinson |
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Flotown79
Moderator Group
King of the Smilies Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Hoover, AL Online Status: Offline Posts: 3107 |
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Posted: October/22/2009 at 10:48am |
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The Moderns had the 'key' above the S&C. After Jones was expelled from them he created IF&AM and placed the key beneath the S&C.
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"Even with all of the recent advances in Masonic Education, there still remains no effective means by which you can communicate with a brother that already knows everything." - Ron Robinson |
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Flotown79
Moderator Group
King of the Smilies Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Hoover, AL Online Status: Offline Posts: 3107 |
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Posted: October/22/2009 at 1:03pm |
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Upon looking at the website of the Jeff Long GL IF&AM, I noticed a section called Great Masons. After clicking the link I am taken to the Masonic Info website. http://www.masonicinfo.com/famous1.htm
What I find funny is that they are attempting to reference a site that refers to them as fake/bogus/sham/clandestine. http://www.masonicinfo.com/morephonies.htm (#40 under GA) If you look here, please notice the words 'kind of' to describe their Supreme Headquarters. http://internationalmasonsga.com/affilates.aspx Edited by Flotown79 - October/22/2009 at 3:11pm |
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"Even with all of the recent advances in Masonic Education, there still remains no effective means by which you can communicate with a brother that already knows everything." - Ron Robinson |
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JLHSMITH
Quarrymen
Joined: July/14/2009 Location: Little Rock, AR Online Status: Offline Posts: 134 |
Quote Reply
Posted: October/22/2009 at 3:40pm |
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Lol Supreme Pres/CEO lol! I've only met a handful of IFAM bros in Arkansas. My fraternity brother is GM over the MFAM here. His lodge is right up the block from one of our PHA lodges. Lets just say he is paid well from the craft and factions break off all the time from that lodge around here. We also had NGL GL start here abt 4 yrs ago.
Edited by JLHSMITH - October/22/2009 at 3:44pm |
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Unity Lodge #454
Mohammed Temple #34 J.L.H.Smith Consistory #76 MWPHGLARK |
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Tacal77
Newbie
Joined: June/08/2009 Location: Erie, PA Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
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Posted: October/28/2009 at 10:58pm |
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WOW...
I am officially PHA. The healing was not as bad as I thought, actually no where near what i thought it would be, nevertheless it's over with and now my new masonic journey begins...
Peace & Blessings
 Fraternally yours
Bro. Frank
MWPHGLofPA
Bay City Lodge #68
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tm274
Moderator Group
The True Time Traveller .·. Joined: March/31/2008 Location: West.Australia Online Status: Online Posts: 2158 |
Quote Reply
Posted: October/29/2009 at 3:44am |
Congrats..............and glad you have found "the true light".
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Initiated : 23rd April 2002
Passed : 25th June 2002 Raised : 24th Sept 2002 Atheism is a non-prophet organization. If a Mod doesn't get you, don't relax....Max will. |
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eagle-751
Quarrymen
Joined: August/17/2009 Location: Ohio Online Status: Offline Posts: 224 |
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Posted: October/29/2009 at 1:27pm |
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Congratulations. Let the true Light shine!
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My life isn't a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body but rather skidding in sideways thoroughly used up worn out & proclaiming WOW What a Ride!
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