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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2012 at 7:00am
Originally posted by Caution1010 Caution1010 wrote:

 
In my opinion, he handled it better than how you would have suggested.

But what is done is done.

Well maybe you can help me out then. What's a catch-e-kism? Am i missing something?

A catechism, by definition, is a set of questions and answers. You can't ask someone a "catechism." You can ask someone a question FROM the catechism, but even then, it's only a question. On its own it is completely benign.

"What were you then told?" - I can think of a million times this question can be asked benignly.

"What makes you a Mason?" - Same thing, any profane might ask you this if they see your ring.

I guess it's hard to understand because he can't post what the question was. I don't even know what someone would say to me if they were to try me. As for what I suggested he say, I think some of it might have gotten lost in text. It was meant to be done in a very friendly manner. If I said something semi-Masonic to a dude wearing a Masonic ring, and his response was to brush me off and sternly say "this isnt the TIME or PLACE for THIS" I would be pretty turned off. I wouldn't even want to talk to the guy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2012 at 11:50am
Originally posted by Hyksos Hyksos wrote:

Originally posted by Caution1010 Caution1010 wrote:

 
In my opinion, he handled it better than how you would have suggested.

But what is done is done.

Well maybe you can help me out then. What's a catch-e-kism? Am i missing something?

A catechism, by definition, is a set of questions and answers. You can't ask someone a "catechism." You can ask someone a question FROM the catechism, but even then, it's only a question. On its own it is completely benign.

"What were you then told?" - I can think of a million times this question can be asked benignly.

"What makes you a Mason?" - Same thing, any profane might ask you this if they see your ring.

I guess it's hard to understand because he can't post what the question was. I don't even know what someone would say to me if they were to try me. As for what I suggested he say, I think some of it might have gotten lost in text. It was meant to be done in a very friendly manner. If I said something semi-Masonic to a dude wearing a Masonic ring, and his response was to brush me off and sternly say "this isnt the TIME or PLACE for THIS" I would be pretty turned off. I wouldn't even want to talk to the guy.


Well, if your feelings are hurt, too bad...but truthfully...that's not the time or place for it. LOL. Suck it up and push on.

As for catch-e-kisms...there are a series of questions some folks ask...not necessarily part of the lectures or ritual questions...just questions so far to the left...but somehow someway (by whose thinking i don't know) relate to freemasonry.

The idea of it is to "catch" a non-mason...but quite frankly any daft sow can memorize them back and forward and spit them back...so it's not used as a means of trial by the sincere active masons...just for silly fun really


Edited by Caution1010 - April/20/2012 at 11:50am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2012 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Caution1010 Caution1010 wrote:

Originally posted by Hyksos Hyksos wrote:

Originally posted by Caution1010 Caution1010 wrote:

 
In my opinion, he handled it better than how you would have suggested.

But what is done is done.

Well maybe you can help me out then. What's a catch-e-kism? Am i missing something?

A catechism, by definition, is a set of questions and answers. You can't ask someone a "catechism." You can ask someone a question FROM the catechism, but even then, it's only a question. On its own it is completely benign.

"What were you then told?" - I can think of a million times this question can be asked benignly.

"What makes you a Mason?" - Same thing, any profane might ask you this if they see your ring.

I guess it's hard to understand because he can't post what the question was. I don't even know what someone would say to me if they were to try me. As for what I suggested he say, I think some of it might have gotten lost in text. It was meant to be done in a very friendly manner. If I said something semi-Masonic to a dude wearing a Masonic ring, and his response was to brush me off and sternly say "this isnt the TIME or PLACE for THIS" I would be pretty turned off. I wouldn't even want to talk to the guy.


Well, if your feelings are hurt, too bad...but truthfully...that's not the time or place for it. LOL. Suck it up and push on.

As for catch-e-kisms...there are a series of questions some folks ask...not necessarily part of the lectures or ritual questions...just questions so far to the left...but somehow someway (by whose thinking i don't know) relate to freemasonry.

The idea of it is to "catch" a non-mason...but quite frankly any daft sow can memorize them back and forward and spit them back...so it's not used as a means of trial by the sincere active masons...just for silly fun really

A catch-e-kism is like a short masonic riddle. More of a game than test of real masonic knowledge. They do relate to masonry although nothing in the book can prepare you to figure them out. They are purposely tricky and some even involve hand motions that consist of signs from the EA, FC, & MM degrees.  However, it's not a fun game unless both know something and choose to simply try to outwit one another. 

In other cases tho one brother may try to embarrass another. This isn't something I've witnessed but I was taught to watch out for it. Catch-e-kisms don't come from the book although books are sold that contain them for those interested. I was taught if someone tries to embarrass you with them to either return fire with a real question from the catechism since they probably wont know it from spending their time learning useless information, ask them to show it to you in the book (impossible), or to simply say "mine for yours" because, most of the brothers who play the embarrassment game are either not very knowledgeable on the actual book, not in good standing, or simply clandestine. 

That being said, as far as someone busting out with a catch-e-kism at a family function. I would probably go with "caution" because to me it sounds slightly less rude than "not the time or place" or I might even approach them and quietly ask them where do they hail and change the conversation. If they still chose to persist we could go step aside and "mine for yours."


Edited by E3_SquareMD - April/20/2012 at 2:06pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2012 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by E3_SquareMD E3_SquareMD wrote:

 
That being said, as far as someone busting out with a catch-e-kism at a family function. I would probably go with "caution" because to me it sounds slightly less rude than "not the time or place" or I might even approach them and quietly ask them where do they hail and change the conversation. If they still chose to persist we could go step aside and "mine for yours."

I said that he should just ask him if he's a mason and from what lodge. 

I also must say that this is for sure the biggest difference I have heard of between PHA and MS. I've never even heard of this. I don't understand the purpose of it all, but I'm sure there's reasons. It just seems completely unnecessary in the outside world. Why not just ask the person if he's a Mason? What's with trying to "catch people" and trick them? 

What happens if a Brother doesn't know? What happens to him? Also, is this taught as part of the degrees? Or is this some sort of thing that developed during fellowship dinner, and doesn't have any correlation to the work/a tyled lodge?

NobleShabba: E3 is from your jurisdiction. If what he's saying is commonplace, then I think we can account for the differences between our understandings of Masonry. The "Masonic experience" is totally different.


Edited by Hyksos - April/20/2012 at 6:14pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2012 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by Hyksos Hyksos wrote:

Originally posted by E3_SquareMD E3_SquareMD wrote:

 
That being said, as far as someone busting out with a catch-e-kism at a family function. I would probably go with "caution" because to me it sounds slightly less rude than "not the time or place" or I might even approach them and quietly ask them where do they hail and change the conversation. If they still chose to persist we could go step aside and "mine for yours."

I said that he should just ask him if he's a mason and from what lodge. 

I also must say that this is for sure the biggest difference I have heard of between PHA and MS. I've never even heard of this. I don't understand the purpose of it all, but I'm sure there's reasons. It just seems completely unnecessary in the outside world. Why not just ask the person if he's a Mason? What's with trying to "catch people" and trick them? 

What happens if a Brother doesn't know? What happens to him? Also, is this taught as part of the degrees? Or is this some sort of thing that developed during fellowship dinner, and doesn't have any correlation to the work/a tyled lodge?

NobleShabba: E3 is from your jurisdiction. If what he's saying is commonplace, then I think we can account for the differences between our understandings of Masonry. The "Masonic experience" is totally different.

Let me be clear: Catch-e-kisms are not taught in Prince Hall lodges Angry. Also, this is not commonplace. They're not official people I guess just made them up over time. I don't even know any. We are taught to memorize degree work as we don't use books while at work and we memorize catechisms but nothing about catch-e-kisms! 

We are not as different as some might like to think. When brothers see my ring they may ask "where do you hail?" to learn my affiliation which is PHA but I could say Hiram Grand which is clandestine and a big problem here in MD. That said even clandestine masons have asked me "where do you hail?" No one has ever tried a catch-e-kism on me. Now I don't know if MS lodges ask that question so that may be different but the answer is to simply state the name of your GL to quickly weed out clanestine masons. So if someone were to say Most Worshipful Hiram Grand Lodge I would immediately know where they stand and I could pivot away from any further masonic intercourse. So that question I would definitely say is commonplace but catch-e-kisms are NOT.

People get too hung up the the name Prince Hall and PHA. It's not to separate ourselves as though we're better or do things differently. It is a tradition of remembering and honoring our heritage. Like many things back then (1775) men of color had to struggle to gain admission and acceptance into the craft. Prince Hall led the brothers who succeeded and went on to become their first WM of African Lodge in Boston. They were later purposely excluded when the other lodges in Boston formed their GL. My point is--had history been better the name Prince Hall Mason probably wouldn't exist. Despite those differences in heritage tho, the "Masonic experience" is probably waaaay more similar than different. Our roots trace back to what is now the UGLE like many MS lodges. The differences are probably as minor as any single jurisdiction is to another.

Now that that's out the way. Here are some examples of catch-e-kisms I just found online:

- Question: "How old is your Father?"
- Answer: "My father passed away. I'm a Widow's Son"

-Question: "What a nice ring -- what did you give for it?" 
-Answer: "I payed for it dearly. It cost me my life!"

But again I googled these online just now. They were never taught to me!



Edited by E3_SquareMD - April/20/2012 at 8:55pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2012 at 1:59am
@ Hyksos

PHA has a book of Catch-e-kisms of which they practice the 'game' of light on each other to take one's ring.  Supposedly, the ring is returned in the member's Lodge.    ...All this reminds me of Frat games in collage.   ...search the forums for 'taking one's light' ... there are a number of topics.

The catch-e-kisms were wrote as a way to prove PHA members from Clandstine Masons.   The bad part is that over time (by way of expelled or suspended PHA members) the Clandestine Masons also have the same catch-e-kism book.  So it is useless to prove anyone as a Mason by the catch-e-kisms.   Only a dues card can do that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2012 at 11:16am
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

@ Hyksos

PHA has a book of Catch-e-kisms of which they practice the 'game' of light on each other to take one's ring.  Supposedly, the ring is returned in the member's Lodge.    ...All this reminds me of Frat games in collage.   ...search the forums for 'taking one's light' ... there are a number of topics.

The catch-e-kisms were wrote as a way to prove PHA members from Clandstine Masons.   The bad part is that over time (by way of expelled or suspended PHA members) the Clandestine Masons also have the same catch-e-kism book.  So it is useless to prove anyone as a Mason by the catch-e-kisms.   Only a dues card can do that.


Not all members of PHA entertain such behavior.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2012 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Flotown79 Flotown79 wrote:

.....

Not all members of PHA entertain such behavior.


I know   ... but it does seem that way from some of our past topics.   ... the actions of a few effect the Majority.


Edited by edwmax - April/21/2012 at 1:21pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2012 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

Originally posted by Flotown79 Flotown79 wrote:

.....

Not all members of PHA entertain such behavior.


I know   ... but it does seem that way from some of our past topics.   ... the actions of a few effect the Majority.

Do you really believe in using that type of logic against your own tho? So, if I saw it online or heard it then it must be true? Lets extrapolate that logic for a moment: 

According to your conclusion it is ok for the profane to keep labeling us as devil worshipers. It is correct for them to assert that every celebrity who does something strange with their hands, shakes another's hand in a slightly less that firm way, or takes a picture with something that looks like it could be represent something masonic must be a Mason? The Dan Brown books are all true. Masonry is a religion and lets not forget we are also be illuminati.

Did you know that Dr. Conrad Murray who killed Michael Jackson was a clandestine mason? Well pictures surfaced of him online in masonic regalia so should non-masons believe that we all conspire to kill celebrities. Michael Brea, Ugly Betty Star, killed his mother with a Tylers sword from his clandestine lodge so I guess we kill our mothers. And both are black so that must be what Prince Hall Masons do right? But wait, Michael Richards, aka Kramer from Seinfeld, the one who had the racist rant is a MS Mason and a 32nd deg (truth) so all MS are racist right? Well that would certainly explain why the blacks had to start their own masonry and can't join white lodges and they don't like each other to this day? 

Do you see where I'm going with this? Did it ever occur to you that everybody on here could only be representing themselves and their own beliefs? For that matter they may not even be who they say they are. I don't know about you but I tend to give the benefit of the doubt on the negative things I read here or elsewhere but regardless I always take it with a grain of salt. Ok, I'm done. (pops a zeal chill pill)


Edited by E3_SquareMD - April/21/2012 at 4:48pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2012 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by E3_SquareMD E3_SquareMD wrote:

Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

Originally posted by Flotown79 Flotown79 wrote:

.....

Not all members of PHA entertain such behavior.


I know   ... but it does seem that way from some of our past topics.   ... the actions of a few effect the Majority.

Do you really believe in using that type of logic against your own tho? So, if I saw it online or heard it then it must be true? Lets extrapolate that logic for a moment: 

According to your conclusion it is ok for the profane to keep labeling us as devil worshipers. It is correct for them to assert that every celebrity who does something strange with their hands, shakes another's hand in a slightly less that firm way, or takes a picture with something that looks like it could be represent something masonic must be a Mason? The Dan Brown books are all true. Masonry is a religion and lets not forget we are also be illuminati. 
   ... I didn't make or draw any conclusion .....

Originally posted by E3_SquareMD E3_SquareMD wrote:

...Did you know that Dr. Conrad Murray who killed Michael Jackson was a clandestine mason? Well pictures surfaced of him online in masonic regalia so should non-masons believe that we all conspire to kill celebrities.
   ... Yes ... and I can't help what non-masons might think ...

Originally posted by E3_SquareMD E3_SquareMD wrote:

....Michael Brea, Ugly Betty Star, killed his mother with a Tylers sword from his clandestine lodge so I guess we kill our mothers.   ...
    ... I didn't and my Brothers have not, but I'm not sure about you. Have YOU????

Originally posted by E3_SquareMD E3_SquareMD wrote:

     .... DELETED ... This section of your RACIST quote is not worth replying too ...


Originally posted by E3_SquareMD E3_SquareMD wrote:

  ....Do you see where I'm going with this?
 
... absolutely NOT!   ... I'm still trying to figure out what planet you just arrived from; or what's in those 'chill pills' you are popping.    .... Nothing in your rant pertained to any post above.


Edited by edwmax - April/21/2012 at 7:06pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2012 at 7:07pm
For the sake of HARMONY.....this topic is now "LOCKED"
 
 
 
 
 
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