Mastermason.com Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Flea Market & Help Desk > PC Help Desk
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Grammar and Rhetoric
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Grammar and Rhetoric

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
Adrian N. Gollop View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: December/18/2012
Location: Trinidad
Status: Offline
Points: 29
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adrian N. Gollop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2012 at 6:29am
Good point.  There's also the fact that there's new language/abbreviations which they use sometimes giving new meanings and expressions.
"Be True to what you do, and what you do will be True to you." ~ Adrian N. Gollop
Back to Top
GrimoireA3 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: May/05/2013
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrimoireA3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2016 at 10:38am
While still emphasized in Great Britain, the study of Rhetoric has all but disappeared from the general public school curriculum in the USA.

Rhetoric has four elements:

1.) Bathos - When a writer falls into inconsequential and absurd metaphors to be increasingly emotional, i.e. the 'anti-climax'.

2.) Pathos - appeal to the emotions of the audience (what lawyers do to the jury to win their case, not find the truth).

3.)Ethos - guiding beliefs or ideals that characterize a community.

4.) Logos - To reason dispassionately using logic or any system of reasoning. Learn your logical fallacies. What Sherlock Holmes did to solve a crime.

Rhetoric and 'debate' needs to be reemphasized in America.
Please Note: I am not a Mason. And also, I am not an anti-Mason!
Back to Top
windrider View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: May/02/2011
Location: NChelmsford, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 363
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windrider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2016 at 1:57pm
This is one of my "hot buttons", too. I'm a moderator on a very popular forum geared toward those who would like to join the Fraternity. I see constant misuse of common words, "text spelling", misspelled words, lack of punctuation and grammatical errors that would have earned me a smack on the knuckles with a ruler back in high school. 

One of the most common errors I see is the misuse of the word "apart". I will often see sentences along the lines of: "I want to be apart of the Masons." Well, you already are, my friend. I think you meant to say, "I want to be a part of the Masons." 

A wonderful example of the contribution punctuation lends to understanding is, "Eats shoots and leaves." as in, "The Panda eats shoots and leaves." The hunter eats, shoots and leaves. What a difference a comma can make.




Master, Webmaster, Lodge Ambassador
Ancient York Lodge AF&AM

Lowell, MA

God never sends us anything we can't handle. Sometimes I wish He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa
Back to Top
BroScubaSteve View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman


Joined: February/25/2013
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BroScubaSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2016 at 7:30am
Originally posted by windrider windrider wrote:

This is one of my "hot buttons", too. I'm a moderator on a very popular forum geared toward those who would like to join the Fraternity. I see constant misuse of common words, "text spelling", misspelled words, lack of punctuation and grammatical errors that would have earned me a smack on the knuckles with a ruler back in high school. 

One of the most common errors I see is the misuse of the word "apart". I will often see sentences along the lines of: "I want to be apart of the Masons." Well, you already are, my friend. I think you meant to say, "I want to be a part of the Masons." 

A wonderful example of the contribution punctuation lends to understanding is, "Eats shoots and leaves." as in, "The Panda eats shoots and leaves." The hunter eats, shoots and leaves. What a difference a comma can make.




I know the forum you are eluding to. I think half the problem there is that the top hits of "masonic forums" gets an influx of foreign men posting on American boards because their country doesn't have a masonic presence or it is outlawed. (or they are secret police trolling for members in their country)
Initiated 4-22-13
Passed 5-29-13
Raised 6-27-13

Junior Deacon
F&AM GLNJ
32°AASR NMJ, Southern Valley of NJ
Back to Top
windrider View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: May/02/2011
Location: NChelmsford, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 363
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windrider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/02/2016 at 8:18pm
Foreigners I can understand. Most of them are hardly intelligible. The ones that are from the US and can't spell, use grammar or punctuation are the ones I want to tell to come back when they learn to write. What do teachers do these days? It must drive them insane to see a large portion of young adults being functionally illiterate. The excuse is usually: "I'm using a mobile device." To which I answer, "So am I. It simply takes a little effort to proof read before you hit submit." Perhaps I've been doing this too long...

Master, Webmaster, Lodge Ambassador
Ancient York Lodge AF&AM

Lowell, MA

God never sends us anything we can't handle. Sometimes I wish He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa
Back to Top
Sec'yBob View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: April/23/2015
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sec'yBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2016 at 8:42am
I worked at a High School for awhile after retirement.

As I was walking in the hallway, I spied a piece of paper on the floor, and thinking some student might need it, I picked it up with the intent on returning it to them.

This is what I found:

It was a 8 1/2 x11 piece of paper, torn from a spiral binder.

At the very top, was  "my summer vacation"   the quotes are mine.

Then immediately after that it starts, with a description of the vacation.  All sentences ran together, no punctuation, no capital letters, in print, not cursive, and a ton of misspelled words.  It filled the page completely right to the very bottom.

There was no name on the paper, no class nor anything else, but the teacher signed it with her initials, and gave the student a B+

This was just 4 years ago.  That kid is probably out in the work force by now.


Bob Bauer
Secretary Meramec Lodge #313
DDGM  Dist #24


Raised 2001
PM Crestwood-Anchor #443
PM Meramec #313
DDGM Dist. 24
Lodge Education Officer
Missouri Lodge of Research
O.E.S. Chapter 129
Back to Top
Sec'yBob View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: April/23/2015
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sec'yBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2016 at 8:48am
I just thought of another incident at the same high school.

My supervisor was the 9th grade principal and we were good friends and almost exactly the same age.

He approached me one day and asked if I thought education has improved since we were in school.
I told him a resounding  NO.

He seemed upset and a mild debate began. As we were talking, the bell range for passing, and we were standing in the hall, so we stepped aside to let the students go by.

While there, he sees a student coming and says to me,  I will prove that I am right, Brandon here, is a very good student.  I will test him and show you are wrong.

He calls the kid over, and says to him....." I want to ask you a simple question, no tricks, and please give me a simple best answer.  Brandon agrees, so the Principal asked him  "Who won the Civil War?"
and he replies  "That's easy, the Germans"

True story!
Raised 2001
PM Crestwood-Anchor #443
PM Meramec #313
DDGM Dist. 24
Lodge Education Officer
Missouri Lodge of Research
O.E.S. Chapter 129
Back to Top
windrider View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: May/02/2011
Location: NChelmsford, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 363
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windrider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/03/2016 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Sec'yBob Sec'yBob wrote:

I worked at a High School for awhile after retirement.

As I was walking in the hallway, I spied a piece of paper on the floor, and thinking some student might need it, I picked it up with the intent on returning it to them.

This is what I found:

It was a 8 1/2 x11 piece of paper, torn from a spiral binder.

At the very top, was  "my summer vacation"   the quotes are mine.

Then immediately after that it starts, with a description of the vacation.  All sentences ran together, no punctuation, no capital letters, in print, not cursive, and a ton of misspelled words.  It filled the page completely right to the very bottom.

There was no name on the paper, no class nor anything else, but the teacher signed it with her initials, and gave the student a B+

This was just 4 years ago.  That kid is probably out in the work force by now.


Bob Bauer
Secretary Meramec Lodge #313
DDGM  Dist #24



That's exactly what I'm talking about. What possesses teachers to allow a high school student to be illiterate? 





Master, Webmaster, Lodge Ambassador
Ancient York Lodge AF&AM

Lowell, MA

God never sends us anything we can't handle. Sometimes I wish He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa
Back to Top
BroScubaSteve View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman


Joined: February/25/2013
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BroScubaSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/04/2016 at 9:33am
Originally posted by Sec'yBob Sec'yBob wrote:

I just thought of another incident at the same high school.

My supervisor was the 9th grade principal and we were good friends and almost exactly the same age.

He approached me one day and asked if I thought education has improved since we were in school.
I told him a resounding  NO.

He seemed upset and a mild debate began. As we were talking, the bell range for passing, and we were standing in the hall, so we stepped aside to let the students go by.

While there, he sees a student coming and says to me,  I will prove that I am right, Brandon here, is a very good student.  I will test him and show you are wrong.

He calls the kid over, and says to him....." I want to ask you a simple question, no tricks, and please give me a simple best answer.  Brandon agrees, so the Principal asked him  "Who won the Civil War?"
and he replies  "That's easy, the Germans"

True story!
No, the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

(movie reference)
Initiated 4-22-13
Passed 5-29-13
Raised 6-27-13

Junior Deacon
F&AM GLNJ
32°AASR NMJ, Southern Valley of NJ
Back to Top
scout View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: July/11/2013
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 47
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2016 at 9:17am


(That's exactly what I'm talking about. What possesses teachers to allow a high school student to be illiterate? )

Teachers do not "allow" students to be illiterate any more than policemen allow people to become criminals or doctors allow their patients to contract a behavior related disease.  The reasons for student failure are legion, but I can assure you that poor teaching is at the bottom of the list.





[/QUOTE]
Back to Top
windrider View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: May/02/2011
Location: NChelmsford, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 363
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windrider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2016 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by scout scout wrote:



(That's exactly what I'm talking about. What possesses teachers to allow a high school student to be illiterate? )

Teachers do not "allow" students to be illiterate any more than policemen allow people to become criminals or doctors allow their patients to contract a behavior related disease.  The reasons for student failure are legion, but I can assure you that poor teaching is at the bottom of the list.


How does a student progress up the grades without achieving the minimum standards of literacy for the prior grade? My wife had to repeat a couple of grades due to her inability to meet minimum standards. A high school student should know the rules of grammar, punctuation, spelling and be capable of revising a report after proof reading. 

Is it the teacher who gives a B+ for a document that is nearly indecipherable? Is it the school that wants to just move them along? Is it the school system measuring the wrong things in evaluating those schools and teachers? I don't know the answer but it may be all of them and more. 

We as a society are not serving our children or ourselves by providing inadequate education. I'm reminded of the old movie "Idiocracy".




Edited by windrider - October/05/2016 at 1:03pm
Master, Webmaster, Lodge Ambassador
Ancient York Lodge AF&AM

Lowell, MA

God never sends us anything we can't handle. Sometimes I wish He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa
Back to Top
droche View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: March/03/2008
Location: Worcester, Mass
Status: Offline
Points: 2180
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2016 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by scout scout wrote:



  The reasons for student failure are legion, 
 

Amen.
Back to Top
Sec'yBob View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: April/23/2015
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sec'yBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2016 at 6:28pm
Wind  rider you may have hit the nail on the head

The school district I worked for had a slogan which at this time I cannot remember, but it said that everyone moves along in progression

The school district I live in says  " No student left behind"

I suppose we are not allowed to fail anyone, you know, individual rights, equal rights, everybodies rights to entitlement.   Third graders have rights to not be left behind even if they fail to perform and pass.!!!!
even if it affects their performance in later grades.

And Bro Scuba Steve.........the Germans did not bomb Pearl Harbor,  my neighbor told me it was photoshopped just like the moon landing.      Do I sound bitter??????
Raised 2001
PM Crestwood-Anchor #443
PM Meramec #313
DDGM Dist. 24
Lodge Education Officer
Missouri Lodge of Research
O.E.S. Chapter 129
Back to Top
BroScubaSteve View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman


Joined: February/25/2013
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BroScubaSteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2016 at 7:16am
Originally posted by Sec'yBob Sec'yBob wrote:

And Bro Scuba Steve.........the Germans did not bomb Pearl Harbor,  my neighbor told me it was photoshopped just like the moon landing.      Do I sound bitter??????
I've never heard that one before. Is that a real conspiracy theory going around in parts of the country?
Initiated 4-22-13
Passed 5-29-13
Raised 6-27-13

Junior Deacon
F&AM GLNJ
32°AASR NMJ, Southern Valley of NJ
Back to Top
scout View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: July/11/2013
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 47
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/06/2016 at 12:59pm
Now that's closer to the truth. The myriad of districts with their highly variable requirements and the ill-informed state legislators who attempt to legislate educational reform as if they're dealing with a factory churning out widgets.  All of these things, and more, conspire to defeat the best efforts of the teacher to educate kids.
Back to Top
Sec'yBob View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: April/23/2015
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sec'yBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2016 at 8:13am
I have had kids at my school, tell me that the Holocaust never happened also. When I question them they tell me one of two things:
Their parents told them it is not true, or
They don't believe it  because it is impossible to think that that many people were murdered.
Raised 2001
PM Crestwood-Anchor #443
PM Meramec #313
DDGM Dist. 24
Lodge Education Officer
Missouri Lodge of Research
O.E.S. Chapter 129
Back to Top
WBScott View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: October/18/2014
Location: Wright City, MO
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WBScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2016 at 9:42am
Originally posted by Sec'yBob Sec'yBob wrote:

And Bro Scuba Steve.........the Germans did not bomb Pearl Harbor,  my neighbor told me it was photoshopped just like the moon landing.      Do I sound bitter??????

Originally posted by Sec'yBob Sec'yBob wrote:

I have had kids at my school, tell me that the Holocaust never happened also. When I question them they tell me one of two things:
Their parents told them it is not true, or
They don't believe it  because it is impossible to think that that many people were murdered.

I have never been to the moon, but I have been to the Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor and have also been to the camp at Dachau. Let me tell you, this stuff was not Photo Shopped!

And yes, I did get the reference to Animal House!


Edited by WBScott - October/07/2016 at 11:16am
Wentzville (MO) Lodge #46 - PM
Pride of the West (MO) Lodge #179 - PM (twice)
Pauldingville (MO) Lodge #11 - Secretary
Warrenton (MO) Lodge #609 - Secretary
DDGM - 25th Masonic District
Back to Top
WBScott View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: October/18/2014
Location: Wright City, MO
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WBScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2016 at 11:12am
Dupe

Edited by WBScott - October/07/2016 at 11:14am
Wentzville (MO) Lodge #46 - PM
Pride of the West (MO) Lodge #179 - PM (twice)
Pauldingville (MO) Lodge #11 - Secretary
Warrenton (MO) Lodge #609 - Secretary
DDGM - 25th Masonic District
Back to Top
Sec'yBob View Drop Down
Quarryman
Quarryman
Avatar

Joined: April/23/2015
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sec'yBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2016 at 4:17pm
I too was at Dachau  and cried almost all the way through.  Very sad

Today's children however  are being influenced by adults who ...............well I will leave that alone for fear of being banned from this site.


Raised 2001
PM Crestwood-Anchor #443
PM Meramec #313
DDGM Dist. 24
Lodge Education Officer
Missouri Lodge of Research
O.E.S. Chapter 129
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03
Copyright ©2001-2011 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.
Biver no longer has a day-to-day role in Hublot, but rather manages Hublot replica watches along with other LVMH watch brands from the top. For instance, it was recently announced that he replica watches would be filling in as the interim CEO of TAG Heuer - another LVMH brand. That isn't a job Jean-Claude probably rolex replica wants right now, as he has been toying with retirement for a while - but he steps up when he is rolex replica sale needed. Hublot has been doing a good job of keeping the fire alive without Jean-Claude, but with Ricardo always out and about, I can't help but wonder who rolex replica keeps the peace back at HQ. I mention the above as a semi-explanation of the fact that Hublot doesn't always have all the replica watches details settled when they announce a new replica watches uk partnership or product. The major question on the table is whether or not there will be a limited replica watches uk production "Mr. Brainwatch Edition" watch.