Grammar and Rhetoric

I believe the reason for the marked decrease in the written communication skills of our high school graduates is email, internet chatting, and blog sites.  One could also add that many businesses frequently use power point slides which use a bulletized format.   Yes, you are correct, I am writing this message onto an online forum.

Communication involves one person transmitting information understood by the receiving party as the sender intended it.

Edited by Caution1010 - May/12/2011 at 2:26pm

I guess it's not that serious to me on an online forum. To each there own I guess.

Coach,

I try to be as clear and concise as possible. I may be getting older, but I find myself more and more annoyed at the increased use slang, all capital letters, etc,. by people. Slang terms get used so often that it actually makes it's way into the dictionary as a legitimate word!

Very sad indeed. 

Could not agree more, although I'd like to add that proper etiquette is praised everywhere.

I put the blame on society we allowed these things to happen. We as the people have lost ourselves. What happen to the Martins and Malcomes of these world.  What happen to each on teach one, It takes a nation to raise a child.  We as the people have become so dependent on "It's not my problem".  What we forgot is in the long run as we now are beginning it is our problem. 

Brother Ray, welcome to the forums. How about an introduction post in the http://forum.mastermason.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=4&title=introduce-and-accommodate-visiting-brethren section. I am also a ham as well, KE4RHN. I do very little with it anymore though.

coach wrote: You can use it to perfect your skills; or u cn use it 2 prfct ur skls; it all depends upon your intention(s).

I have to laugh when I think back to the 1970's, working for HFC. They made us learn their "code" to write our notes on the account cards so the customers could not read what we were writing. That code was almost identical to the texting shorthand of today.

Ok, time to swat the hornets nest...

Did we ever consider that the written word was so expensive during the formation of Masonry, that many of those brothers probably were unable to read and write?

Mouth to Ear? Maybe that's why we have "Grammar & Rhetoric" instead of "Penmanship & Spelling"...

Is "ghetto slang" even an appropriate term to use? I'm sure you're not using it in an inflamitory manner, but that term comes with certain connotations. It's sort of like telling someone not to speak "hillbilly" or something along those lines.

As far as what we write, who judges was is appropriate and how strict are we supposed to be. Should we have done sort of template we need to follow for writing posts? Are we going to start calling each other out for the improper use of punctuation marks? Maybe we should start using MLA, APA, or Chicago style?

When I was in grade school, having the words: "but", "and", and "or" at the begging of a sentence was really frowned upon. BUT . . . in college and in the course of conversation it's totally acceptable.

Couldn't have put it better ...

NobleShabba wrote: Ok, time to swat the hornets nest... Did we ever consider that the written word was so expensive during the formation of Masonry, that many of those brothers probably were unable to read and write? Mouth to Ear? Maybe that's why we have "Grammar & Rhetoric" instead of "Penmanship & Spelling"...

Look Ed, I'm not going to argue with you. I said I'm sure that's not what you meant. If you think that's uncalled for, then fine. I'm sorry my comment made you think otherwise.

NobleShabba wrote: I find that the art of being succinct even while excersicing the abilities to pontificate are not unlike the challenges of mental dexterity required to produce readable and comprehensible output in a manner that is palatable to one's audience...

.... precisely ....

Wow!! On Tuesday I was talking to a senior Grand Lodge officer who admitted to me that he was dyslexic. My opinion of him has risen right up since then - imagine the effort required to learn ritual to a high level and write and receive reports.

edwmax wrote: NobleShabba wrote: edwmax wrote: ... The term 'ghetto slang' is appropriate when referring to generally un-appropriate form/style of speech. ... We also trust you meant "inappropriate"    I meant what was stated .... appropriate!  ... my rhetoric is correct.

Is un-appropriate slang for inappropriate?

http://langblog.englishplus.com/?p=1099

http://i.word.com/idictionary/Unappropriate

So ... it is not a slang word.   It is in Webster's.   ... and it was not a misspelling in the 1913 dictionary and has been in use since before 1800 (see websters).  Even masonic.truths' link shows this.


Edited by edwmax - May/05/2012 at 3:54pm

edwmax wrote: So ... it is not a slang word.   It is in Webster's.   ... and it was not a misspelling in the 1913 dictionary.

Edited by masonic.truths - May/07/2012 at 11:14am

Not sure if this is a good place for this, but I'm giving it a shot.  When I post lately a string of text is in front of my message. 

I am a special education teacher. Part of my job is to teach writing to high school students with moderate special needs, English being a second language to many of them. I too lament the deterioration and lack of emphasis on writing skills in our schools. I am known to be a fairly decent writer, however, my penmanship is terrible as I do not have well developed fine motor coordination.

How did I develop my writing skills? Two things:

1. I read a lot. Reading and writing is like tasting and smelling. One cannot taste without the sense of smell. Likewise, IMO, (with perhaps a few exceptions) one cannot develop writing skills without being able to read decently. My writing skills really took off when I started reading Charles Dickens, a very complex but effective writer. It doesn't have to be Charles Dickens, it can be any advanced writer. 

2. Some may laugh or find this hard to believe- I use a fountain pen. My penmanship is so bad that a fountain pen with its increased friction forces me to slow down and makes my writing more legible. I then read somewhere that years ago, students used fountain or ink pens for writing and it forced them to slow down and form their letters. The slower process also allowed them greater time to think about what they were going to write and improved their writing.

When it comes to Grammar, proper standard English puts us on the same page. Has anyone tried to read writing by common English people in the 1600's? Try reading John Smith's account of encountering animals and Indians in the New World. Very difficult to understand. Likewise today, many of our high school students were taught writing under the Whole Language system which did not emphasize spelling and grammar. Thankfully, Whole Language, while it had is merits, is no longer taught, but the damage has been done in many cases. However with text messaging, these new slangs and abbreviations have come in and I fear we are going backwards once again.

Just happened on this post.... I have 3 kids, all adults now. When they were little, I read to them every night. As time went on, they started to read to me. About the time the oldest boy was 11 or so, When we were visiting my parents, I commented to my mother that they really enjoyed reading. She got that funny smile that mothers get when dispensing momentuous information....
"You like reading, don't you?"
"Uh.. yeah...." (I always have.)
"I used to read to you and your brother and sister when you were little"
The penny dropped about then, and I realised that she was right, that reading to them when they are babies and toddlers instills a comfortable feeling and induces them to like reading.
My middle son and his wife are reproducing. We have started buying books for the kid. Maybe he/she won't read books, but whatever media is there, I expect him/her to be an avid reader by the age of 5 or 6.

a