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Role of Freemasonry in The American Revolution

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fireman99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fireman99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 4:21pm
PB..... as a native southerner myself, I do believe what you have done is what I have been taught is calling BS on what that gentleman has tried to lay out here. The seeds he's attempting to sow here are impressive to the untrained eye and as a new Brother, I appreciate hearing the truth. It would be easy for someone to get confused if it wasnt for informed Brothers like yourself and the others on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Palmetto Bug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 4:45pm
Thank you, fireman99, for recognizing what was going on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by gousa1 gousa1 wrote:

Here's an interesting post from a non-Mason on the Revolution. I believe he's an attorney in DC.

http://luisgranados.com/blog/?p=37


I'm not sure whether the text is ridiculous or simply ignorant?

"The tone of its constitution was unmistakably Deist, citing a vague obligation to “that religion in which all men agree,” while firmly insisting that “No private Piques or Quarrels must be brought within the Door of the Lodge, far less any Quarrels about Religion.”
It's interesting how people think that either you are religious fanatic or a deist - nothing in between exists.
Nothing can be further from the truth. It's the narrow minded perception of religion, from the view point of (most of the time) atheists, that allows for this silly idea to be promoted.
What needs to be understood, in order to understand the basic principles of Freemasonry, is that accepting that someone else might have different religious views, that you have no need, nor right to interfere in someone's faith, and of course, that all men can be equal, no matter of their background - is not deism, it's simply humanism and respect.
You are right about one thing though: I believe the problem is that we are looking back 200 years with tunnel vision. We see what we selectively want to see because we don't understand the early lodges as well as we imagine.
This is absolutely true! So... start widening your horizons... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Nodier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Palmetto Bug Palmetto Bug wrote:

Originally posted by gousa1 gousa1 wrote:

I understand that there are only a select few who "get it" and that the rest of us are merely profanes "looking in".  There is no reason to belabor your point.

However, for the rest of us who believe in an alternate reality there are some other scholarly types worthy of consideration. I mention them only for the purpose of entertainment, and not enlightenment of any kind.

Prof. Steve Bullock
Prof. Jonathan Israel (Oxford University)
Prof. Matthew Stewart
Prof. Francis Yates

As for myself I remain caught between my faith in the purveyors of truth and the objective profanes mentioned above. ;-)


 
Your efforts at entertainment are appreciated and respected as such, JP. I, for one, also appreciate your cordial attitude. The seeds you are attempting to plant will not take root here, however.
 
Maybe there is something wrong with the soil then?
Maybe it is time to till the lands and get fresh soil on top?
Stagnate soil usually does not produce good crops.
Seeds are seeds, but if the soil is no good, you are right, they will not take root.
Thank you for pointing that out........ and break out roto tiller!Wink
"Suspicion is the companion of mean souls, and the bane of all good society."
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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Palmetto Bug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2010 at 5:31pm

Charles: The soil is very good here. Could it be that the seeds being sown by some are what may be little spoiled? I suspected your leanings, but now I think I know and no longer suspect.

Homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gousa1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 8:49am
Seeds? Hmmmm? I don't know anything about gardening but am quite skilled at motorcycle maintenance.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAMB.MASON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 9:09am
Originally posted by gousa1 gousa1 wrote:

Is it possible that we (21st century Freemasons) may be looking at things based on too many assumptions?

It can be shown that Masons fought on both sides of the American and French Revolutions. Yet, there is also evidence that many of the events associated with these were planned and orchestrated by Masonic lodges.

I believe the problem is that we are looking back 200 years with tunnel vision. We see what we selectively want to see because we don't understand the early lodges as well as we imagine.

In the eighteenth century Freemasonry was a loose organization of lodges. The rituals performed were based on a common theme but varied from lodge to lodge. The Grand Lodges had little, if any, real control because of the distances involved and slow means of communication. Many lodges, including the lodge where Washington was initiated, had no connection or Charter from any Grand Lodge. Then there were the traveling military lodges which operated outside of any control mechanism.

While the Moderns and Antients fought for control in London, the rest of the Masonic world seemed indifferent to the matter. Many London Masons belonged to both groups; the most famous being William Preston.

In this environment the lodges could and did become revolutionary, anti-clerical, pantheist, deist, and atheist among a multitude of other things. Many lodges appear to have been little more than social drinking clubs, as has been pointed out by professors Jacob and Bullock.

If 21st century Masons want to truly understand the history of the fraternity they must begin by realizing that things were not always as they are now. Today we have a very organized fraternity with standardized rituals and procedures. This, however, was not the case 200-300 years ago.

So what the non-Mason author proposes is both true and untrue at the same time.

Jeff
   It is hard to say just how much FreeMasonry had on the American revolution, and perhaps we do look at it with tunnel vision.  Reading records of Masonic Lodges going back to the 1770's at times it is very hard to tell what is going on.  Records were not only lost but were poorly kept, and in early times, some Lodges did vote on new elected officers once per year and once per six months.  This would be the case in a change in lodge secretaries, which in some cases today we find a  secretary in that postion for two, five, ten years.  This was not the case in some lodges during this time.  So each one had a different way of keeping records.  The other thing that is overlooked is the treasurer books, which in most cases are forgotten.  They give a better insight on what the lodges did for dinners, charity and events which would help with history. A secretaries book is only as good as the secretary, and even thou their has been some good books on colonial freemasonry, some of it may not be totally accurate.
 
   As far as military lodges, I do believe they do need a charter or at least a warrant in order for them to act, we know that the British had number of such lodges assigned to regiments here in the US, and I only know of one American military lodge from the revolution times which was out of Boston.  They were formed by the GL of Massachusetts, St. Andrews GL.
 
  One also has to understand that Masonry in colonial times was different than it is today, this changed after the Morgan affair of 1826.
 
 
  Question since we seem to maybe getting off track here, do any of you think that the French coming to the aid of America during the revolution had to do with Franklin and his ties to French Masonry, or was it just good diplomacy of Franklin and Adams.


Edited by CAMB.MASON - June/01/2010 at 9:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gousa1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 9:17am
This isn't a "seed," but a head bolt from a TwinCam motor.

Check out Louis Amiable, Une loge maçonnique d'avant 1789. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote droche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 10:32am
Originally posted by CAMB.MASON CAMB.MASON wrote:

  Question since we seem to maybe getting off track here, do any of you think that the French coming to the aid of America during the revolution had to do with Franklin and his ties to French Masonry, or was it just good diplomacy of Franklin and Adams.
 
My feeling is the French came to the aid of the Colonists because it was in their economic interests to do so, both both by way of trade and by defeating Britain, that would weaken the British elswhere in the world and make France stronger and increase her influence.
 
As with other aspects of the American Revolution, I think the role of Masonry re the French "intervention" has been overstated.


Edited by droche - June/01/2010 at 10:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Nodier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 10:59am
Did a quick search on that gousa1, this is what I found on it...
 
 
"Brother Amiable’s book, Une Loge Maçonnique d'Avant 1789, has the charm and "go" of an alluring novel full of remarkable incidents and striking people — better, indeed, than any novel could be, because the adventures are historical and the actors are real. The wonderful book sketches with almost breathless sweep the electrically charged zone of the French Revolution. For Freemasonry in France, like the progress of the Craft in American Colonial days, was a school of patriotism. Freemasonry of the French and American Revolution was neither watery nor apologetic. In truth it was a home and a laboratory for the cleansing fluid that acidly tried men’s souls, that assayed the pure gold from the dross and sent the refined product out into the world to hang together or hang separately in the sacred cause of freedom." Says Brother Amiable: 
Freemasonry was Incontestably one of the factors of the great changes which were produced in North America and in France, not by means of some kind of international conspiracy, as has been pretended so childishly, but in the elaboration of ideas, in rendering public opinion clearer, wiser and stronger, fashioning the men in the fray and whose action was decisive. Of all the Masonic Lodges who exerted that influence in our country (France) the best known, or perhaps I had better say, the least unknown today, is that which received Voltaire some weeks before his death. 
Brother Amiable is justly proud of the membership of the Lodge, the most famous men of the time. Voltaire, the great writer; Lalande, the astronomer; Benjamin Franklin, who followed Lalande as Worshipful Master; Paul Jones was a member; and there is a long list of titled men, counts and marquises; eminent lawyers, as de Seze, who defended the King, Louis XVI, before the Convention; groups of literary leaders, Delille, Chamfort, Lemierre, and Florian, of the French Academy; painters of international fame as Vernet and Greuze; the great sculptor Houdon; musicians, as Precinni and Delayrac; while there was also a group of the Revolutionist Party chiefs, Sieyes, Bailly, Petion, Rabaut Saint-Etienne, Brissot, Cerutti, Foucroy, Camille Desmoulins, and Danton. 
The clergy themselves had furnished the Nine Sisters with a notable array. Two churchmen took part in the first grouping of founder members. On the day when Voltaire was received, the Lodge contained no less than thirteen priests of religion. One of these, untiring in his zeal, took part in the work. Four others who came later into the Lodge sat as members of the great Revolutionary Assemblies."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 150man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2010 at 11:17am
Originally posted by CAMB.MASON CAMB.MASON wrote:

 
  Question since we seem to maybe getting off track here, do any of you think that the French coming to the aid of America during the revolution had to do with Franklin and his ties to French Masonry, or was it just good diplomacy of Franklin and Adams.
 

Benjamin Franklin and the French Alliance

He had spent eighteen years in England as colonial agent and the last eighteen months at home in the Continental Congress. In that short interval he had seen his people take up arms for a desperate war, declare themselves a nation, and make the first cautious moves in foreign relations. As the American who best understood both sides of the Atlantic, Franklin had carried much of that burden, and for a long time to come would carry all the responsibility for getting maximum aid from the neutral powers without compromising the future of the new republic.

In his 2006 biography Samuel Adams: Father of the American Revolution, historian Mark Puls describes Adams as a pre-Revolutionary political visionary and leader, who was described as the “Patriarch of Liberty” by Thomas Jefferson and as the “Father of the American Revolution” by others of his time.[105] After Samuel Adams’s death, his cousin John stated:

Without the character of Samuel Adams, the true history of the American Revolution can never be written. For fifty years his pen, his tongue, his activity, were constantly exerted for his country without fee or reward.[106]

 
 
While I can't rule out that masonic connections had anything to do with diplomacy, I'm inclined to believe it was good diplomacy that caused the help of the French.

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