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New Book by Alton Roundtree
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Flotown79 View Drop Down
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Points: 5093 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flotown79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2010 at 12:30pm
Not ignored. 

If a Modern Free lodge wanted to join your GL, they would have to turn in their Charter to MF and after the process they will get a new Charter from your GL.

History can't be changed.  It is like African Lodge.  Many have said she is wrong for existing but the fact (history) will always be that she was on the rolls of the GLE.  She is no longer there but that history will always be there.

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I agree with you on that point Flo.
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Jacob Jenkins became Grand Master of the Ancient York Masons at the formation of the NGL in 1848. A year later he being Grand Master declared his Grand Lodge no longer a member of the Ngl. Then District Dept. NGM Samuel Van Brankle suspended Jacob Jenkins and obligated another GM for that state.
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@ Jrider and that Grand Master was William H. Riley right?
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I need to verify, but I do believe you are correct.
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*Gets popcorn waiting for debate to continue*
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Originally posted by q357 q357 wrote:

Originally posted by ARPHA ARPHA wrote:

This is really a moot point.  I don't care how many book Roundtree writes, the NGL is considered an irregular entity.  That will not change any time soon.  So I say if one wants to be a compact mason, then so be it and have fun with it.  But as for me and mine, we will always be P.H.A. end of story LOL.  We as P.H.A. masons need to get back to the business at hand, help for a poor distressed brother and widows and orphans.  The community needs us and we are bogged down with this mess (LOL). Big smileConfused
 
I think this is the best response I have heard in regards to this whole thread. PHA or PHO I think its all pointless. I do have a question though. If the roots of Masonry go back to thousands of years B.C., then where did the UGLE get their charter from. Whether I am PHA or PHO it shouldn't matter. The good works that a "Mason" does regardless of Affiliation is what proves him to be a Mason regardless of warrant or charter. The work we do only needs be warranted or chartered by the GAOTU as pleasing and fitting to him. At the end when the Tyler sizes up your deeds prior to entry into the Eternal Lodge he will not ask "Are you regular". Lets get our heads out of the recognizable rubbish to begin clearing the path for friendship and virtue amongst men that can best work and best agree.
 
Great points bro. Some of us are more concerned with "regularity based on UGLE" than our ways and actions proving us to be travelers.
 
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@ Jrider
 
When Jacob Jenkins declared "Independence" how many Lodges went with him?
Were they the Lodges which were part of the former Hiram GL?
 
If this was the case, there would be evidence of the NGL establishing a new Grand Lodge. Correct?
 
If this case is adopted as a "regular" move, how does it differ from a move like that of like John G. Jones?
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John Jones is a whole different story in my eyes lol
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John Jones saw the writing on the wall in 1895. He upset members of Mecca Temple in Washington, D.C. 1895. Being that the Supreme Council meet that Fall (1895) I dont see how Jones thought he would be SGC when he upset SGIG of his council (he would need their votes). So he was suspended from the Scottish Rite in 1895. I can only imagine that at this time, he attempted his AFAM thing with Romania; thereby violating his Blue Lodge obligation. He continued mischief in the AASR and the Shrine moved on w/o him. Jones knew his day was coming lol. Everytime I read about John G. Jones I'm like wow, he had it all and let power and titles get the best of him.
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Bro JLHSMITH,
Though not an apples to apples comparison, the Delaware situation has similarities to the JGJ situation. Where can one thorough research the John G. Jones movement in Illimois? 


Edited by bsidepro465 - January/11/2011 at 4:29pm
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http://www.nymasoniclibrary.org/collections/collections.htm
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The only thing about J. Jenkins is I wonder what he felt at the time? Did he feel wronged? Did he just disagree with NGL so much he went rogue? History is interesting. I've said before my GL was founded by at the time (MWGL FAAYM MO- two lodges, James Alexander #4 and Richmond #10/MW King Solomon Grand Lodge- one lodge, Widow's Son #18). However I've found that my Grand Lodge did not want a warrant from NGL from the onset and was Independent from the jump. Bside, do you know of any other PHA lodges that never petitioned the NGL although their founding lodges came from Compact GLs? 

Edited by JLHSMITH - January/11/2011 at 4:41pm
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Originally posted by jrider jrider wrote:

Jacob Jenkins became Grand Master of the Ancient York Masons at the formation of the NGL in 1848. A year later he being Grand Master declared his Grand Lodge no longer a member of the Ngl. Then District Dept. NGM Samuel Van Brankle suspended Jacob Jenkins and obligated another GM for that state.


Jacob Jemkins was NOT the Grand Master at the formation of the NGL in 1848. William Riley was. The arrangement in the articles of Union between 1st Independent GL and Hiram GL was the oldest GL would have the first GM and the following year, the Hiram GM (Jenkins) would be second. Jacob Jenkins rebelled and he along with members aligned with the old Hiram denounced the NGL. At that point  District Dept. NGM Samuel Van Brankle suspended Jacob Jenkins and obligated another GM for that state (William Riley). This move was made until the Grand Lodge of Pa F&AAYM was able to convene and the GL duly expelled Jenkins and his rebels.
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 http://www.princehall-pa.org/GrandLodge/pgmlist.html
 It lists Riley as GM 1840-1847 and Jacob Jenkins GM 1848-1849 then Riley again 1850-1851.
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I actually got to see a pic of PGM William D. Matthews of KS at the National Phylaxis meeting here in Pine Bluff last March. Bside, I'm all for PHA/PHO history. Education is key. I'm not pro -Compact, but I do appreciate and respect the history PHO has.
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Originally posted by JLHSMITH JLHSMITH wrote:

 http://www.princehall-pa.org/GrandLodge/pgmlist.html
 It lists Riley as GM 1840-1847 and Jacob Jenkins GM 1848-1849 then Riley again 1850-1851.
 
Uh oh,
 
I really hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Past Grand Master listed in the above citation from 1847-1882 are all Grand Masters sub-ordinate to the National Grand Lodge. What makes this confusing is that after Jacob Jenkins reformed his Grand Lodge*, both Grand Lodge went by the same name. The MW Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania F&AAYM.
 
* It as appeared in several proceedings that the Jacob Jenkins post 1849 GL was called Hiram Grand Lodge (please see the Proceedings of Ga. AF&AM 1874, page 4 and Footprints of Prince Hall Freemasonry by Aldrage Cooper).
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Not bad news, common knowledge with a simple read or two.I was just listing what I know to be on the site. Yea PA was a hotbed. LOL
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Originally posted by bsidepro465 bsidepro465 wrote:

Originally posted by JLHSMITH JLHSMITH wrote:

 http://www.princehall-pa.org/GrandLodge/pgmlist.html
 It lists Riley as GM 1840-1847 and Jacob Jenkins GM 1848-1849 then Riley again 1850-1851.
 
Uh oh,
 
I really hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Past Grand Master listed in the above citation from 1847-1882 are all Grand Masters sub-ordinate to the National Grand Lodge. What makes this confusing is that after Jacob Jenkins reformed his Grand Lodge*, both Grand Lodge went by the same name. The MW Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania F&AAYM.
 
* It as appeared in several proceedings that the Jacob Jenkins post 1849 GL was called Hiram Grand Lodge (please see the Proceedings of Ga. AF&AM 1874, page 4 and Footprints of Prince Hall Freemasonry by Aldrage Cooper).
Yep 11th St and 7th St guys as they used to call em.
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Question bside, what do you think personally caused the same GLs that once were apart of and supportive of NGL to abandon it and become 'Independent/States Right' as it was called? What caused these guys to nearly split NGL subordinate GLs in half going Independent?

Edited by JLHSMITH - January/11/2011 at 5:24pm
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Originally posted by JLHSMITH JLHSMITH wrote:

Question bside, what do you think personally caused the same GLs that once were apart of and supportive of NGL to abandon it and become 'Independent/States Right' as it was called? What caused these guys to nearly split NGL subordinate GLs in half going Independent?
 
Honestly to come in-line with those which discriminated upon them in the first place as opposed to the alternative.
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Here the straight and narrow, the NGL was forming grand lodges in places where there was already a princehall grand lodge, caused a ton of dissention amongst jursidiction and ultimately pitted brother against brother.  One after another GL started backing out because of the obvious over taxing and monarch like position the NGL had given itself. the NGL was supposed to bring harmony between the Grand Lodges but instead did the exact opposite. 
 
"Resolved, That each state is its sovereign head, and that each delegate be directed to report to his State Grand Lodge, the action taken by this body. And be it further
Resolved, That the National or Compact Grand Lodge is, and the same is hereby declared to be an irregular and unheard of body in Masonry, and it is hereby declared forever void."
 
The NGL Died in Wilmington Delaware 1877 Both PGM Davis and PGM Voorhis were in attendance.
 
Compact can make an argument of regularity, but because you are not structured IAW the Laws of Freemasonry you are not recognized, you are irregular, you ARE Clandestine.
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Question for bside- why would PGM R. H. Gleaves turn on the very org he was once NGM of? Why do you think he 'switched sides'?
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