What would you like to see changed or improved? |
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WBScott
Quarryman Joined: October/18/2014 Location: Wright City, MO Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 10:03am | ||||||
We take PayPal for dues, but before we set that up with our bank, we checked with our Grand Lodge to make sure it was OK to do this.
Why make things so complicated? Rather than start a brand new lodge, a much easier solution would be to arrange to have someone in your lodge pick the brother up and take him back home.
We do this sometimes when we have several degrees, especially MM degrees, but only on a Saturday. We are prohibited by our Grand Lodge to hold communications, regular or special, on Sunday.
If there is a website you like, you might get in contact with the "webmaster" of that site and ask if they can assist you with making a website for your lodge if there isn't anyone in your lodge skilled in this area.
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Wentzville (MO) Lodge #46 - PM
Pride of the West (MO) Lodge #179 - PM (twice) Pauldingville (MO) Lodge #11 - Secretary Warrenton (MO) Lodge #609 - Secretary Past DDGM - 25th Masonic District |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 10:39am | ||||||
Before you do that, you have to convince your lodge of the necessity of having an internet presence (Believe it or not, there are Masons, who have not seen the benefits of their lodge having a web page. I can send you a list of lodges, which will NEVER permit their lodge to have a webpage) The Grand Lodge of Ohio is the first Grand Lodge (that I know of), which has mandated that every lodge in the state, have a webpage. |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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YES
Groupie Joined: January/08/2015 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 86 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 12:24pm | ||||||
It is all well and good to have and express an opinion, but why must you always burn down others that do not agree with you? Are websites beneficial to some Lodges? Absolutely. Would all Lodges benefit from having a website? I doubt it. I know Lodges that do not have any members that are capable of developing and maintaining a website, yet they have good attendance at regular meetings, some have weekly meetings to prepare members to qualify for Certificates of Proficiency, have a steady flow of candidates and degree work, have meals before every regular meeting, host Catfish Suppers for the Eastern Star Chapter, present “Honesty and Integrity” awards to local High School students at open meetings, volunteer at community events, participate in District Lodge meetings, and are well known in their communities. So, are those Lodges and their members not promoting Masonry? I just do not understand the mindset that you know what is right for every Lodge. |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 12:57pm | ||||||
It is all well and good to have and express an opinion, but why must you always burn down others that do not agree with you?</span> ----I am not burning anyone down. Just pointing to the fact, that not all lodges have a website. And there are many lodges that for one reason or another, do not choose to have an internet presence. Are websites beneficial to some Lodges? Absolutely.</span> I know Lodges that do not have any members that are capable of developing and maintaining a website, --I would surmise, that most lodges do not have a member who is a website developer. That is why there are website firms, that you engage, and pay a fee. I foresee a day, when more Grand Lodges will mandate that ALL lodges in their jurisdiction will be mandated to have an internet presence. I also foresee Grand Lodges having an officer who is the "Grand Webmaster". See this link: http://freemasoninformation.com/2011/01/freemasonry-and-the-internet yet they have good attendance at regular meetings, some have weekly meetings to prepare members to qualify for Certificates of Proficiency, have a steady flow of candidates and degree work, have meals before every regular meeting, host Catfish Suppers for the Eastern Star Chapter, present “Honesty and Integrity” awards to local High School students at open meetings, volunteer at community events, participate in District Lodge meetings, and are well known in their communities.</span> --Splendid. I am glad that there are lodges which can provide these services, and do it all without the internet. But consider a young man who watches a documentary on the "Discovery" channel, and then goes to the internet to see about the lodge in his town. If there is no internet presence, then he will have a difficult time learning about the lodge. There are lodges all over the USA (and abroad), who are seeing more and more of their petitioners coming from the internet, and less and less from more traditional venues. I just do not understand the mindset that you know what is right for every Lodge. </span> [/QUOTE] I have no way of knowing what is "right for every lodge". I do not even know what is right for my own lodge! I just know that Masonry is in the internet age, like it or not. Edited by cemab4y - March/12/2015 at 6:09pm |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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WBScott
Quarryman Joined: October/18/2014 Location: Wright City, MO Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 1:27pm | ||||||
I belonged to a daylight lodge for several years when I worked 3rd shift and you're right, I found it much easier to go to a meeting after work than before, especially since they served breakfast! It was a small lodge and as you might imagine, it was mostly comprise of retired guys. Its not that they had any physical infirmaties (is that a word?) that prevented them from driving at night, it was just that didn't have anything better to do. Also, the lodge had very few "original" members. Almost all of the guys were multiple members of this lodge and at least one other. But here's the issue... Within 5 years, I was WM of that lodge twice. I did my year then stepped aside. Then after another 2 years, the Senior Warden had some reason that he did not want to sit in the East. And I wasn't the only one that had multiple years in the East. All we were doing was recycling the same guys through the chairs and honestly, it became kind of pointless after awhile.
If a lodge does not have enough members who are willing to pick up an "elder statesman" of their lodge and bring him to a meeting, then you have to ask yourself why some of these guys are even bothering to come to lodge at all. This is a very sad state of affairs for that lodge. Didn't we promise to come to the aid of a worthy brother Master Mason?
Edited by WBScott - March/12/2015 at 5:36pm |
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Wentzville (MO) Lodge #46 - PM
Pride of the West (MO) Lodge #179 - PM (twice) Pauldingville (MO) Lodge #11 - Secretary Warrenton (MO) Lodge #609 - Secretary Past DDGM - 25th Masonic District |
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BigBob
Quarryman Joined: May/10/2011 Location: Jacksonville Status: Offline Points: 930 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 1:57pm | ||||||
Bro. Martin has made some good suggestions.
Every lodge should have a website. This isn't an opinion, it's just a fact of living and operating in the 21st century. Just as mail and landline telephones were in the last few centuries. Daylight lodges are an awesome option for many brothers, especially given the age of most of our members. The problem, as WBScott pointed out, is that participation may and probably will be lacking. But this is part of the larger issue of having too many lodges in one geographic location. My lodge is toying with the idea of paying online. We aren't there yet, but hopefully we will be in the near future. Checks and paying physical money has become antiquated in many respects and with check/debit cards its much easier paying online or setting up online backing. |
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Ribualt Lodge 272 - SW
Jacksonville 12 R.A.M. - King Hallmark 2 R.S.M. I-09.21.10 P-11.18.10 R-02.15.11 |
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Adept?
Senior Member Joined: August/30/2013 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 746 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 2:18pm | ||||||
I don't know that I agree that every lodge needs to have a website. I believe they probably should, but my lodge doesn't and never has. however the Grand Lodge of Maine has a wonderful website with many different links and helpful things for new members and old members alike. there are links to the Blue Book, worshipful master's guides, Lodge officers guides, official cipher is on there as a pdf download, an interested candidate can go online and print off a petition and turn it into the lodge. there's a lodge locator, you can locate every lodge in the state of Maine from the Grand Lodge website, we can even pay our dues online. there's no denying the benefit of having a website.
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"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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Adept?
Senior Member Joined: August/30/2013 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 746 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 2:23pm | ||||||
Yes, yes it is. Full Definition plural in·fir·mi·ties 1 a :the quality or state of being infirm b :the condition of being feeble :frailty 2 :disease, malady |
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"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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YES
Groupie Joined: January/08/2015 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 86 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 4:24pm | ||||||
Well, you have a “list” of nonbelievers that you are prepared to expose, that sounds punitive to me.
Most Lodges have limited funds and I would never presume that I know better than its members how a Lodge should spend their funds.
Most if not all Grand Lodges have Lodge Locators on their websites that have the address, meeting times, and/or contact info for the Lodges in their state. I would think that if someone is doing an online search for a Lodge that they would consider looking at the Grand Lodge website.
Do you have any actual data on that or just anecdotal observations? I am not opposed to taking advantage of any benefits available from the internet be it websites, social media, or any other venues available now or in the future, but I still say that it is not something that is particularly worthwhile for some Lodges. I also would like to see some hard numbers showing the actual amount of traffic Lodge websites actually receive. I am sure that some websites are very active, but I would also imagine that many sites have very few hits. You always have to keep in mind where a Lodge is located. I have no doubt that in cities, Lodge websites can be very beneficial, however, in most small towns and rural communities (which is my background) in most cases they provide little or no benefit. Also, I think it depends on what the Lodge sees as the primary purpose of a website. If it is to keep the members informed of what is going on in the Lodge, I personally believe a better method for this would be to collect email addresses and use an online email marketing site like Constant Contact or MailChimp (which is free for up to 2,000 contacts). If it is for community awareness, most local papers have a section that lists upcoming meetings and events for free and some local radio and TV stations will also air segments about this for free. Edited by YES - March/12/2015 at 4:26pm |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 6:01pm | ||||||
-Most Lodges have limited funds and I would never presume that I know better than its members how a Lodge should spend their funds.-
Internet sites can be had for free, or for very low cost. My lodge started with a facebook page, and then later obtained a webpage. If your Grand Lodge permits, it you can even sell ads on the webpage, and defray the cost this way. -Do you have any actual data on that or just anecdotal observations?- I was at Columbia Lodge 285 in Arlington VA, some time ago, and the secretary told me that the lodge had received 17 (seventeen) petitions in one month, all from internet inquiries. Columbia lodge has really embraced the internet. See their link: http://www.columbia285.org - I have no doubt that in cities, Lodge websites can be very beneficial, however, in most small towns and rural communities (which is my background) in most cases they provide little or no benefit.- The most internet-wired community in the USA, is Blacksburg, VA. (I am a telecom engineer). The internet is "ubiquitous" , meaning that it is everywhere. Now I challenge you: Why would you think that a lodge in a suburban or rural community, would derive little or no benefit from a web presence. A internet presence, provides many benefits to a non-profit organization. Among these: Informing the membership about events. The sick list upcoming fund-raisers History of the lodge, both for Masons and other interested persons. publishing the minutes of the business meetings providing information about the appendant/concordant bodies, like the Shrine, Eastern Star, DeMolay, etc. NewsPAPERS are obsolete. The city of Huntsville Alabama, only has a print newspaper three days a week, the other days it is online only. Fredericksburg VA lodge #4 stopped publishing their trestleboard years ago. Their lodge news paper is now online only. The Grand Lodge of Kentucky no longer has a print newsletter. Kentucky Masons get the Masonic Home Journal on line only. I can foresee a time when the Grand Master of each Grand Lodge will record a monthly "podcast". The URL for the podcast will be on the Grand Lodge website, and every Mason in the state, will be able to see the podcast each month. Lodges will install widescreen TVs, and during the business meeting, the podcast will be played to the membership. With SKYPE, we will see Grand Lodge sessions broadcast statewide. I can even imagine, Masonic education, and Masonic history courses being taught on-line. An internet page, can have information on how to petition Freemasonry , and a downloadable petition form. The Grand Lodge of Virginia even has a twitter page \https://twitter.com/GrandLodgeofVA The GL of VA has an "ask hiram" page, where you can learn more about Masonic protocol. The GL of VA has a "what is Freemasonry"? Video spot on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsENC6BxuUw More and more, the first knock at the West Gate, is an electronic knock. This is an exciting time to be a Mason! Edited by cemab4y - March/12/2015 at 6:22pm |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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YES
Groupie Joined: January/08/2015 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 86 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 7:23pm | ||||||
Again, you keep changing what you said. I will again quote the statement that my reply was referencing:
And again even with free webpage hosting or a facebook page, you need someone that is interested and capable in handling the project.
That is anecdotal. You are talking about a Lodge in a city with a population of over 200,000 people. How representative is that of the type of response that would be received for the website of a Lodge in a small town or rural community? Again, I would like to see a statistical analysis of Lodge website traffic and outcomes for various metrics based on Lodge size and location.
Of course the internet is “ubiquitous”. I said small town and rural communities, I did not say suburban because most suburban communities are associated with metropolitan areas and I think would typically be more similar to a metropolitan area than a small town or rural community. Now why do I think most Lodges in small towns would derive little or no benefit from a web presence:
I feel I am qualified to speak about small towns and rural communities because that is where I lived most of my life, however I readily admit that I can not speak to this issue as far as metropolitan and suburban areas are concerned.
I can tell you that in small towns and rural communities, people still very much look to the local weekly for local news.
Informing the membership about events. I do not disagree with that, but still believe that if the primary purpose of a website is to keep members informed, with the exception of "History of the lodge, both for Masons and other interested persons"an online email marketing site can be used to get the information out more efficiently, and in my experience once you have created your contact list they are easier to use and maintain than a website. Edited by YES - March/12/2015 at 7:34pm |
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BigBob
Quarryman Joined: May/10/2011 Location: Jacksonville Status: Offline Points: 930 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 8:44pm | ||||||
I think this thread has reached an adversarial level. I think some things within Freemasonry could use a change/revamp/update . . . whatever you want to call it. Debating the merits of another forum member's point-of-view or comment is fine, but this is not debating. It's one-upmanship, and I for one see no value in it.
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Ribualt Lodge 272 - SW
Jacksonville 12 R.A.M. - King Hallmark 2 R.S.M. I-09.21.10 P-11.18.10 R-02.15.11 |
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Adept?
Senior Member Joined: August/30/2013 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 746 |
Posted: March/12/2015 at 9:02pm | ||||||
Agreed. what would you like to see changed or improved is the title of this thread. let us all please keep that in mind and try to stay on topic. respect each other's views and opinions.
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"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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rchadwic
Quarryman Joined: June/04/2011 Location: Palm Bay, FL Status: Offline Points: 254 |
Posted: March/13/2015 at 7:55am | ||||||
And I will cast a third vote in support of BigBob and Adept.
Further affiant sayeth not. |
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Bob Chadwick
Palm Bay #397 Palm Bay, Fla |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/13/2015 at 8:07am | ||||||
See Columbia 285's webpage. Their lodge has a "least worshipful internet monkey", handling their website tasks. Since nearly all lodge taskings are performed by volunteers, there is ample reason to believe that most lodges will be able to secure volunteer help to run their webpage, facebook page, twitter page, etc.
Like Tim Bryce forecasted, I believe that Grand Lodges will have a "Grand Webmaster" to help and assist individual lodges with their website issues. Already, and for some years, the Grand Lodge of New York has a list of requirements of what must be included on lodge websites, and what must not be included. I believe that having a list of "Do's and Dont's" is very wise. The Grand Lodge and the subordinate lodges must not be exposed to any liability or conflict of interest with their internet presence. Edited by cemab4y - March/13/2015 at 8:10am |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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droche
Quarryman Joined: March/03/2008 Location: Worcester, Mass Status: Offline Points: 2243 |
Posted: March/13/2015 at 9:32am | ||||||
A problem with a topic titled What Would You Like To
See Improved In Masonry is that it is very general and open ended. The original poster has for many years posted this same exact subject several times on this and other forums under the guise of what we would like to see improved in Masonry when in reality it is a platform for what's he would like to see (borderline dictate) happen in Masonry. I know that sounds harsh but after reading this poster's posts over and over for years, that is a reasonable conclusion. I don't mind discussing specific ideas but when topics become over generalized and open ended and are used for an underlying agenda, the forum is asking for trouble.
Edited by droche - March/13/2015 at 9:34am |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/13/2015 at 10:09am | ||||||
Your observation is more than reasonable, it is exact. There are many changes and improvements that I would like for Masonry to adopt. And there are many changes and improvements that other Masons would like to see happen.
I have been a Mason for over 33 years, and I am saddened and depressed by the direction I have seen the beloved Craft take. I am an (inactive) Shriner, and the Shrine has declined from 990,000 members in 1989 to around 400,000 today. The endowment fund that supports the hospitals has taken a huge hit. Two(2) lodges that I belonged to in the past have vanished. I have seen lodges decline and disappear all over the USA. More lodges will close, and the Craft will continue to spiral downward. Of course I have an agenda! I want to see a healthy, vigorous, vibrant Freemasonry, that will make a difference in the lives of our membership, and society at large. If anyone finds fault with that, I have no problem. I have sought out other Masons, and gleaned many ideas, that I would love to see spread nationally. And I see other non-profit organizations doing fabulous things, and I believe that Masonry can adapt those ideas to our Craft. I like to look back at what Masonry has done in the past, and see if we can revive some of our splendid traditions. I would love to see more assistance being provided to Masonic widows. (The one demographic in the Craft, that is increasing, is the number of widows!) I would love to see Freemasonry move in a direction that would keep our rituals and traditions, and also make the Craft more relevant and exciting to the 21st Century man. Do I have an agenda? Guilty as charged. "If you do nothing, you get nothing"- Aung San Suu Kyi, 20 years under house arrest, democracy champion, Nobel prize winner. Edited by cemab4y - March/13/2015 at 11:00am |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/13/2015 at 10:48am | ||||||
Double Thumbs up, Big Bob!! The Grand Lodge of Ohio has mandated that ALL subordinate lodges MUST have a website. No option. I am certain that some lodges did not agree with this decision, but majority rules. I sometimes work odd shifts, or I have days off in the middle of the week. I have attended daylight lodges in Fla, VA, DC,and KY. I have enjoyed the experience. St. Petersburg FLA has a huge number of retired men, and their daylight lodges are vibrant and growing. Of course, the level of participation in daylight lodges will vary. One compromise is for existing lodges to hold Saturday morning meetings, on an experimental basis. This way, the lodge (and the district) could gauge the participation, and make a determination if there was enough interest in starting a daylight lodge, or just to have an existing lodge hold daylight meetings. |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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Troberts505
Quarryman Joined: June/20/2013 Location: Albuquerque, NM Status: Offline Points: 31 |
Posted: March/13/2015 at 10:50am | ||||||
I agree about the internet to an extent, I am personally heading up the Internet committee at our lodge, however it should be on the Lodge level. Some lodges are perfectly content with their membership, others would like to grow. The idea the craft is spiraling downward is true in a sense, yes membership has declined, yes lodges are closing, however there are still men in this "stay at home for the TV" world we live in that thrive in the craft and they are bringing other men with their points of view in. I personally would rather have a lodge of 20 men who pay their dues and are very active than a lodge of 200 with 20 men that are active. The craft is not going anywhere, its just not going to be as large as it was in the 40's and 50's.
This is the beautiful thing about what we do, no two lodges are the same, they have different types of members, they in some cases, do their ritual a little different, the only one size fits all solution for every lodge in the world is this: Be good men, be productive men, assist your fellow man, try to make your presence, in the life of everyone you meet,be a positive one. If you do these things people are smart enough to figure out what our craft teaches and they may want to be a part of it. |
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Initiated 04/05/2013
Passed 05/15/2013 Raised 06/19/2013 Hiram Lodge #13 Mesa Lodge #68 Albuquerque, NM |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/13/2015 at 11:13am | ||||||
As the current situation with Hillary Clinton's emails is showing; the internet is serious business. Of course, each lodge should have control over the content of their webpage. BUT- When you put up an internet page, you are holding not only your lodge, but your Grand Lodge responsible for the content. And, there is a potential for liability and/or conflict of interest.
The Grand Lodge of New York has for some years, had an internet policy, that is intended to maximize the internet presence of subordinate lodges, and also prevent any legal issues. When I agreed for our (unchartered) New York lodge, operating in Iraq, to have a webpage, I sought out the guidance of the Grand Lodge of New York. The GLNY provided the webmaster with a list of procedures "Do's and Don'ts, for the website to follow. I believe that Grand Lodges should be very concerned with the webpages that the subordinate lodges are publishing. This is not without precedence, Lodge trestleboards have always had to meet Grand Lodge standards and guidelines. Maybe Grand Lodges will even institute contests, where the subordinate lodges can see who can develop the best and most innovative web page. |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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YES
Groupie Joined: January/08/2015 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 86 |
Posted: March/14/2015 at 7:16am | ||||||
Was it operating Under Dispensation (UD)? If not it was irregular/clandestine. |
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WBScott
Quarryman Joined: October/18/2014 Location: Wright City, MO Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Posted: March/14/2015 at 7:43am | ||||||
With all due respect, unless you plan on charging $4-500 a year for dues, how do you expect those 20 guys to keep the doors open? Our building is paid for and we do not pay property taxes, but we still have to pay utilities and insurance and other recurring expenses. We also spent $400 for a new blower motor for our HVAC system and painted the "fellowship hall" (i.e. dining room) of our lodge. For all of the good things we do in our community, we still have to meet somewhere so like it or not, we need those other 180 members.
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Wentzville (MO) Lodge #46 - PM
Pride of the West (MO) Lodge #179 - PM (twice) Pauldingville (MO) Lodge #11 - Secretary Warrenton (MO) Lodge #609 - Secretary Past DDGM - 25th Masonic District |
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BigBob
Quarryman Joined: May/10/2011 Location: Jacksonville Status: Offline Points: 930 |
Posted: March/14/2015 at 7:48am | ||||||
Getting back to what changes I'd like to see . . . other than webpages.
I for one would like to see more time and effort dedicated to enhancing the experince of new candidates/members. Stop pushing people through the degrees. With that said, I'd also like to see "business" meeting kept to once a month. Nothing worse that talking about roof repairs or NPD's every meeting.
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Ribualt Lodge 272 - SW
Jacksonville 12 R.A.M. - King Hallmark 2 R.S.M. I-09.21.10 P-11.18.10 R-02.15.11 |
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edwmax
Administrator Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 7098 |
Posted: March/14/2015 at 7:56am | ||||||
It was not irregular or clandestine. It takes time to get a Charter made and hand carried to Iraq by a Mason. ... Also, when a group of Masons has a Charter authorizing their labors from their GL, the Lodge ceases and the Charter is (or must be ) returned when those Masons' tour of duty ends 'AND' there are no Masons of that GL left to accept the Charter. I remember one Lodge in Iraq lost their Charter for this reason and for a period of time could not 'open' until a new Charter was obtained. I think it was a Canadian Lodge that ended and the Masons left were requesting a Charter from the GL of NY. But none of them were members of a NY Lodge. |
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"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."
Thomasville 369 |
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WBScott
Quarryman Joined: October/18/2014 Location: Wright City, MO Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Posted: March/14/2015 at 8:26am | ||||||
Every 3-4 months, we try to have an "event" like a banquet commemorating some Masonic event or as a reason to bestow an award or honor on a member or to recognize a charitable cause in our area that we support. Since these are not "tiled" meetings, we can have non-Masons and spouses attend.
If our schedule permits and the candidate is qualified to advance, why not get him through the degrees at the earliest possible convenience? What good does is do to make a candidate unnecessarily wait between degrees? The sooner we can Raise a candidate to MM, the sooner he can become active in our lodge. Of course the degrees are important, but the whole idea of bringing someone into the lodge is to get him involved. There are so many things a member can not do until he is a MM.
There are some aspects of a regular tiled communication that are unavoidable and there is nothing we can do about it. And with that said, we also hold "business meetings" once a month that are outside of the regular tiled communications. This is where we talk about the mundane "non-Masonic" aspects of running our lodge like building maintenance. And as much as we welcome visiting brethren into our lodge for a regular or special communication, there are also some business aspects of running our lodge that we prefer to keep in house.
Edited by WBScott - March/14/2015 at 8:28am |
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Wentzville (MO) Lodge #46 - PM
Pride of the West (MO) Lodge #179 - PM (twice) Pauldingville (MO) Lodge #11 - Secretary Warrenton (MO) Lodge #609 - Secretary Past DDGM - 25th Masonic District |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/14/2015 at 8:52am | ||||||
My post was unclear. Here is the background. The Grand Lodge of New York chartered Land, Sea, and Air Lodge #1 in 1917 for New York Masons to operate in Europe during WW1. The charter was recalled, and then re-issued in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. During Operation Iraqi Freedom, the charter was reissued, so the lodge could operate at Forward Operating Base Speicher. See: http://rey-salomon.blogspot.com/2005/06/major-to-build-masonic-lodge-in-iraq.html The lodge operated at FOB Speicher for some months. When Major Walther left Iraq, he asked me to set up the lodge at Al Asad Air Base. I was delighted to do so. The GL of NY recalled the charter, and did not re-issue the charter. We had all of the equipment to operate a lodge, but no charter. That is why we set up a Square and Compass club, so that Masons (and anyone interested in Masonry) could fellowship. A lodge without a charter, is a car without gasoline. Edited by cemab4y - March/14/2015 at 8:53am |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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edwmax
Administrator Joined: November/06/2007 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 7098 |
Posted: March/14/2015 at 8:53am | ||||||
I would agree with that statment if you are impling candidates are being 'push though' before being fully ready. Your statement also implies a candidate's experience can be improved. How So? A candidate as an EA & FC is learning, he doesn't start to enjoy the all benefits of Masonry and fellowship until being raised. Our candidates are asked & encouraged to participate in fundraisers and he is invited to all Lodge functions and dinners. But, when it become time to open the Lodge, he (or they) is left by himself(s). |
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"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."
Thomasville 369 |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/14/2015 at 9:00am | ||||||
Double Thumbs up, Big Bob! Most business meetings are B-O-R-I-N-G. Reading the water bill, getting the exact amount for insurance, on and on. Most routine business matters should be handled in executive session, and the secretary and/or treasurer should be permitted to handle all expenditures below a cutoff point, example: $200. And reading the minutes of the previous meeting, can be eliminated. The minutes should be published on the lodge web page. The members can read them on-line, and then at the state meeting, vote to approve. |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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Troberts505
Quarryman Joined: June/20/2013 Location: Albuquerque, NM Status: Offline Points: 31 |
Posted: March/14/2015 at 11:03am | ||||||
With all due respect, unless you plan on charging $4-500 a year for dues, how do you expect those 20 guys to keep the doors open? Our building is paid for and we do not pay property taxes, but we still have to pay utilities and insurance and other recurring expenses. We also spent $400 for a new blower motor for our HVAC system and painted the "fellowship hall" (i.e. dining room) of our lodge.
For all of the good things we do in our community, we still have to meet somewhere so like it or not, we need those other 180 members I agree with you, and I am speaking more from my own experience as I don't know the situation of every lodge, but our building is paid for, its also shared with one other lodge, a teacher and several other organizations who all assume some financial responsibility. So I think we could do 20 members, we don't however. Your argument is valid and probably more accurate than mine. |
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Initiated 04/05/2013
Passed 05/15/2013 Raised 06/19/2013 Hiram Lodge #13 Mesa Lodge #68 Albuquerque, NM |
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BigBob
Quarryman Joined: May/10/2011 Location: Jacksonville Status: Offline Points: 930 |
Posted: March/15/2015 at 9:58am | ||||||
IMO, most of the business can be handled by the appropriate committee and regular reports can be made. I understand that certain items need to be addressed in a timely manner and that is fine. In the YR we have a steering committee that handles a number of issues. The minutes of the meeting are communicated to the companions during stated meetings and if anyone want to discuss them further, they can.
How can we improve the experience of new members? Well I think the more appropriate question is how do we improve the experience for all. We bring candidates through these impressive degree only to have them sit through these meetings that are mundane at best. Its no wonder so many new members never come back. Additionally, petitioners have very little time to really get to know the people they will be sitting in lodge with, presumably for the next few decades. To me it would make more sense for new members to petition a district and let the individual lodges prove to the prospective candidate that they are worth their time. As many pointed out, we don't have new members beating down our doors trying to join. |
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Ribualt Lodge 272 - SW
Jacksonville 12 R.A.M. - King Hallmark 2 R.S.M. I-09.21.10 P-11.18.10 R-02.15.11 |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 8:55am | ||||||
One major change, that I (and MANY others) would like to see, is to drop the antiquated and obsolete prohibition against inviting good men to be Masons.
Of course, not asking men to petition is a tradition. But this is not your grandfather's world, and it is not your Grandfather's Masonry. 75 or more years ago, most people would spend their whole lives in the same location where they were born. And when people had that stability in their lives, they joined the same church and the same organizations that their fathers did. But, it was WW2 that scattered everyone to hell and gone. I was born in 1954, and I have worked from Maine to California, and over 15 years in foreign countries. In our mobile society, I believe that men need Masonry all the more. I cherish (most of ) the traditions in the Craft. Especially, when I can travel to a new city or to a remote military base in Afghanistan, and meet and fellowship with good and upright men. I often ask Masons, what they believe about permitting open recruiting. Many are opposed, but I have never met a man, who can come with a specific reason. What do YOU think? Should we be able to invite men to join our Craft? |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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boing1972
Groupie Joined: January/25/2015 Location: dix,il Status: Offline Points: 46 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 9:35am | ||||||
I have seen this posted over and over again. Sure, I would like to have a drink after a business meeting, or degree work with the new brother. I find nothing wrong with this. But most of the older brothers in my lodge just wanna sit around and drink 5 pots of coffee and complain.also alot of them are over active in their church and seem to think these things apply in side of the lodge.so, if the church doesn't allow it, then those who are the majority don't let it happen at the lodge.but also wonder why there are no new members who come back to the lodge.
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brother bell
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YES
Groupie Joined: January/08/2015 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 86 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 10:01am | ||||||
?
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 10:02am | ||||||
As Yogi Berra (freemason) used to say" "It's deja vu all over again". I believe that every lodge in the USA, has a "buzzard's row". Every lodge has a membership sub-group, that is intent on killing every new idea that anyone proposes.
And as I have said, repeatedly, there are many traditions in Freemasonry, that I would like to see brought back. The Masonic employment bureaus, Assistance to masonic widows, etc. And number one on my list, is the return of the moderate use of alcoholic beverages in our lodge buildings. Edited by cemab4y - March/16/2015 at 10:03am |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 10:11am | ||||||
One idea, that I have put forward many times, is that all lodges should work closely with each new MM, for the first year of his membership. We should hit these men "upstream", and make their Masonic experience worthwhile. This way we will keep these men in the Craft, for a long and productive Masonic career. We need to institute courses, both traditional classroom, and on-line. We can instruct new Masons in masonic history and protocol, and give them an introduction to the more than 100 appendant and concordant bodies. We can prepare new Masons for leadership and how to become officers. We can conduct ritual classes (VA already does this), to get them to take part in degree work. I believe sincerely, if we can keep new MMs in for a year, that we will keep them in for a lifetime. And we can stanch the loss of membership. We are losing more Masons to resignation, demits, and non-payment of dues, than we are to deaths. See http://freemasoninformation.com/2009/06/there%E2%80%99s-a-hole-in-our-bucket/ Edited by cemab4y - March/16/2015 at 10:17am |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 10:31am | ||||||
I have been kicking around the idea of a "calling", for some time. Every Mason, whether new or old, should contribute some "sweat equity" to the lodge. Just paying dues is NOT enough. You can put your tech-savvy brothers on the IT or website committee. You can get men who have skills in the building trades on your maintenance committee. You get men who are skilled in HVAC on the building furnace/AC committee. You can get men who have cooking skills on the Kitchen Krew. If you do not see an exact "fit" right away, you can have the man suggest his own "calling", he may see a need that you never knew existed. The important thing, is that each new MM feel that he is an important part of the lodge, and a vital part of Freemasonry, right off the bat, as soon as he gets picked up off the floor. You must hit a man "upstream", early in his life, and early in his Masonic career. Then you will have him hooked for life, and your lodge resignation/demit numbers will see a decline, and we will see Masonry growing again. Too often, new MMs are just "cast aside", and after their raising, they will attend some our (thunderously boring) stated meetings, and find these meetings to be a waste of time. Young men have family and career commitments. Their leisure time is valuable, and there are many leisure activities available. I would love to each new MM, to be assigned an experienced man, who can instruct him in Masonic protocol and history. He needs to be introduced to the appendant/concordant bodies. Most importantly he needs to feel that he is appreciated, and that his contribution to the lodge is important and valuable. |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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eagle-751
Quarryman Joined: August/17/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 321 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 6:42pm | ||||||
In my opinion, No we should not invite anyone into our Fraternity. Everything we do is based on tradition, most everything is from in the beginning. I see not need to change anything. If it's not broken don't fix it! Just my thoughts. I understand a lot of Brothers would like to see that change, but not everyone. |
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Past Master ( 2014 - 2015 )
Riddle Lodge No. 315 24th Masonic District Grand Lodge of Ohio |
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Adept?
Senior Member Joined: August/30/2013 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 746 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 7:09pm | ||||||
It is broken... The decline in membership nationwide is proof enough of that. I don't think we should be outright recruiting, (I believe in quality over quantity) we don't want every Tom Dick and Harry....Freemasonry is not for everyone. That said, I see nothing wrong with recommending, or suggesting Freemasonry to someone that you know personally, and would gladly recommend if they decided to petition. I love the bumper stickers my grand lodge gives out to all members... It has the square and compass, and reads "to be one, ask one" (yes, there is one on my truck) The fact is, I have found from talking to people about the fraternity, that many people have the misconception that they must be invited. I asked one brother... "why did you wait until you were in your 50's to join?" His reply... "No one ever asked me" He had no idea that he could just ASK for a petition for membership. That is a problem!
Edited by Adept? - March/16/2015 at 7:10pm |
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"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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eagle-751
Quarryman Joined: August/17/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 321 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 8:09pm | ||||||
Not all Lodges are in decline, But I understand what you are saying. I was given a few of the 2B1ASK1 bumper stickers, I do not have any on my cars. Maybe some day, but not yet. I can not or will not argue with any of what you said, it is your opinion and you my Brother are entitled to it. I was giving my opinion. I was in my late 40's when I joined... for the same reason you said, however I still will never ask anyone to join. ( Not even if they change the rules ) |
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Past Master ( 2014 - 2015 )
Riddle Lodge No. 315 24th Masonic District Grand Lodge of Ohio |
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Adept?
Senior Member Joined: August/30/2013 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 746 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 8:28pm | ||||||
So mote it be
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"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 9:08pm | ||||||
read them and weep:
U.S. Grand Lodges Membership STATE 2012 MEMBERSHIP 2013 MEMBERSHIP GAIN/(LOSS) ALABAMA 27,654 25,885 (1,769) ALASKA 1,820 1,797 (23) ARIZONA 8,000 7,812 (188) ARKANSAS 13,042 12,301 (741) CALIFORNIA 63,546 55,893 (7,653) COLORADO 8,885 9,311 426 CONNECTICUT 11,778 10,576 (1,202) DELAWARE 4,910 4,843 (67) DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 4,438 4,091 (347) FLORIDA 42,959 41,134 (1,825) GEORGIA 41,255 40,750 (505) HAWAII 1,778 1,787 9 IDAHO* 3,670 3,567 (103) ILLINOIS 65,781 64,705 (1,076) INDIANA 60,449 58,363 (2,086) IOWA 20,203 19,338 (865) KANSAS 21,225 20,176 (1,049) KENTUCKY 43,658 42,019 (1,639) LOUISIANA 20,404 19,431 (973) MAINE 19,860 18,573 (1,287) MARYLAND 16,146 15,429 (717) MASSACHUSETTS 33,048 30,861 (2,187) MICHIGAN 34,686 32,997 (1,689) MINNESOTA 13,587 13,062 (525) MISSISSIPPI 18,063 17,565 (498) MISSOURI 45,850 42,274 (3,576) MONTANA* 5,565 5,401 (164) NEBRASKA 11,895 11,405 (490) NEVADA 4,163 4,085 (78) NEW HAMPSHIRE* 6,497 6,097 (400) NEW JERSEY 22,523 22,514 (9) NEW MEXICO 5,389 4,669 (720) NEW YORK 42,669 41,305 (1,364) NORTH CAROLINA 43,112 42,296 (816) NORTH DAKOTA 2,876 2,885 9 OHIO 94,867 91,040 (3,827) OKLAHOMA 23,842 22,622 (1,220) OREGON 8,946 8,648 (298) PENNSYLVANIA 108,758 107,731 (1,027) RHODE ISLAND 3,573 3,444 (129) SOUTH CAROLINA* 37,810 36,689 (1,121) SOUTH DAKOTA* 5,471 5,654 183 TENNESSEE* 40,926 39,943 (983) TEXAS 93,188 81,340 (11,848) UTAH 2,057 2,081 24 VERMONT 5,855 5,708 (147) VIRGINIA 37,177 36,335 (842) WASHINGTON 15,450 14,774 (676) WEST VIRGINIA 20,808 20,251 (557) WISCONSIN 11,742 11,367 (375) WYOMING 3,579 3,417 (162) TOTALS 1,305,433 1,246,241 (59,192) *Revised 2012 figures |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 9:17pm | ||||||
"Everyone is entitled their own opinion, but everyone is not entitled to their own facts" -Daniel Patrick Moynihan (NOT a Freemason).
It astounds me, the number of Masons around the USA (and abroad) who are firmly convinced that everything in Masonry, is just fine, and there is no need to make any changes in anything. I am convinced that there are many fine men, who would benefit from Masonry, and would also benefit Masonry, who just don't know about the Craft. They are waiting for an invitation that will never come. Masons have told me: Everything is just fine in Masonry. Our lodge had two new members last year. Masonry has existed for hundreds of years, and therefore everything is fine. We never had a (fill in the blank) before, so we don't need one now. Grand Lodges are hemorrhaging members, and lodges are closing. Are we ever going to stop whistling past the graveyard? |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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Adept?
Senior Member Joined: August/30/2013 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 746 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 9:18pm | ||||||
Thank you for that Brother. I see 45 out of 50 states declined during that time period, and the ones that did gain, (with the exception of Colorado that gained 426) the gains are minimal ( 9, 24, and 183)
sad...
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"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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Adept?
Senior Member Joined: August/30/2013 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 746 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 9:19pm | ||||||
WHY NOT??? If it only gets ONE person to join... it's helping. It's helping nothing if it's not there to be seen.
Edited by Adept? - March/16/2015 at 9:22pm |
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"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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Adept?
Senior Member Joined: August/30/2013 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 746 |
Posted: March/16/2015 at 9:28pm | ||||||
In effort to keep in the scope of the thread: I would like to see the change that EVERY brother displays an emblem of some sort on their vehicle ( I have 5, 3 blue lodge, one lodge of perfection, and one 32nd). Wear hats, wear shirts, a jacket, a ring, a necklace ( I have, and wear, all but a jacket) Men are supposed to come of their own free will and accord, but there is nothing wrong with advertising, and sparking the initial interest.
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"It is humanity that creates god, and men think that god has made them in his image, because they make him in theirs."
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/17/2015 at 8:14am | ||||||
Texans like to say that they do everything bigger and better than the other states. I am sure that their whopping 11,848 membership decline is one statistic that they wish Texas did not have.
My GL membership is in Kentucky (also hemorrhaging membership). I have been told, by men I respect, that the GL of Kentucky does not "approve" of the "2B1 ASK 1" bumper sticker. Although I know that there is no rule specifically forbidding the use of the sticker, I got their meaning immediately, and decided to follow the taboo, and not cause my lodge (or myself) to "make waves". I met a Mason from Indiana (also losing members), who once visited a KY masonic lodge. He had aluminum foil square and compass stickers on his tail lights. A mason there told him to take the stickers off his car, Kentucky did not approve. (Again, I realize that there is no specific rule against such stickers, but I believe that this man related the incident truthfully). For the record- I belong to two(2) lodges, which are under the authority of two(2) different Grand Lodges. I am only a member, and I do NOT speak for any lodge, nor any Grand Lodge, nor for any appendant/concordant body. I speak only for myself. Edited by cemab4y - March/17/2015 at 1:11pm |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/17/2015 at 8:51am | ||||||
THUMBS UP! I never leave the house, without some kind of "masonic bling". I display masonic stickers on my cars, as well. |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/17/2015 at 10:01am | ||||||
One idea that is already in practice, and should be emulated nationwide:
The Grand Lodges of Maryland and Massachusetts hold state wide open houses. In Massachusetts, every lodge in the state is open on a Saturday morning. The Grand Lodge advertises the open houses on media, statewide (Boston TV stations cover almost the entire state, and the Boston Globe newspaper is state-wide.) The individual lodges are opened to the public. The Lodges serve coffee and snacks, and some lodges get Ben Franklin impersonators. Masonic literature is distributed. Masonic videos are shown on TV sets in the lodges. Some lodges invite representatives from the appendant/concordant bodies. Some have representatives from the Masonic youth groups. Visitors are taken on tours of the buildings. Visitors are given short talks on masonic history and masonic charities. Blank petition forms are made available, when a man asks "How can I join?" The result is that Masonry is out in the open. Awareness of the Craft is increased. AND- Many lodges get a slew of petitions for new members! I would love for this concept to be emulated nationally! Edited by cemab4y - March/17/2015 at 10:14am |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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Nero
Senior Member Joined: September/09/2010 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
Posted: March/17/2015 at 11:40am | ||||||
There are no rules in Ky concerning the "2B1 Ask1" stickers , many Ky Masons have them on their vehicles . Nor does one KY man speak for my entire grand jurisdiction concerning taillight or any other stickers , decals , pins etc; etc; . Why you try to constantly pass this stuff off as fact Cemab4y is beyond me .
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cemab4y
Quarryman Joined: October/31/2007 Location: Fairfax VA Status: Offline Points: 1267 |
Posted: March/17/2015 at 1:06pm | ||||||
I have been told by members of my own lodge, that the GL of KY does not "approve" of the sticker, and not to put one on my vehicle. I took their directive to be the truth. Why would they make such a thing up? I know that there is no rule in the KY GL constitution and by-laws, specifically forbidding the use of this sticker. I was told that the "leadership" of the GL of KY does not "approve" of this sticker. The second comment was anecdotal. I really did meet a Mason in Indiana who told me, that he was told not to display the stickers in Kentucky. Again, what reason would he have to make such a thing up? Edited by cemab4y - March/17/2015 at 1:20pm |
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Charles E. Martin
Alexandria, VA Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM) Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA) |
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