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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 1:28pm
What the above two posts explained (I wish we had a "like" function), and I would also suggest young men don't have greater "social overload" than anyone else. Old men have, believe it or not, friends, family, work, church, FB, Reddit, season tickets...

Also, not all British lodges have alcohol. We had a temperance lodge in Cheshire in my memory.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by YES YES wrote:


<p ="msonormal"="" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
Originally posted by CLewey44 CLewey44 wrote:


…<o:p></o:p></span>



<p ="msonormal"="" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">I
think a lot of young guys desire those days of old when men were men and have
visions of grandeur of sitting around in suits *ie Mad Men* (a show I've never
seen) sipping a whiskey with some other gents…   
<o:p></o:p></span>



<p ="msonormal"="" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">I
would say the debauched lifestyle portrayed on “Mad Men” (a show I </span><b style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">have<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"> watched) represents “delusions of
grandeur” rather than “visions of grandeur”.</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"> 
</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">It certainly does not represent what Freemasonry is.</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">  </span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Is “sitting around in suits…sipping a whiskey
with some other gents…”, what you thought Freemasonry was before you joined and
if so what gave you that idea; how does it make you more of a man and improve Masonic
fellowship?</span>

<p ="msonormal"="" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">However
if you feel strongly about the matter, research your Grand Lodge Code and
introduce a resolution to change it.</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">  </span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">If
a majority of the delegates to the Grand Lodge session agree with you it will
be changed.</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">  </span>







I understand that Mad Men doesn't represent Masonry at all. That is not what I meant. That is the most known, modern image of classy dressed men of the 50s, 60s and 70s, an era. As a matter of fact, my first comment I wrote on here had very little to do with drinking in lodge if you go back and look but it's been spun around as if I'm saying we should get plastered in Armani suits with women clinging to us as we brag about our latest investment gains, property purchases and how making "that first $million$ is always the toughest" to one another as (I guess) that show goes. That's not at all what I'm saying.

I actually don't feel that strongly about this issue but is something to think about. I think it would potentially improve Masonic fellowship. Sharing a drink with someone has always been a popular past time for people to bond and doesn't make you more of a man. I didn't mean that 'when men were men' due to their drinking, I meant in that era.

If it happens or not, is not too important to me. I probably would refrain personally but it wouldn't hurt as an option.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 5:42pm
What I found is that the newer members don't want anything to do with the old ways, and the older ones who changed with the newer crowd, refuse to go back to the old ways because now they don't have to dress up,do anything, and use the lodge as a club house..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2015 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by CLewey44 CLewey44 wrote:

I actually don't feel that strongly about this issue but is something to think about.

With all due respect my Brother, you claim that the subject of allowing alcohol as a means of "improving Masonic fellowship" is not something you feel strongly about, apparently it is important to you judging by your comments here and in your other "cigar hour" thread.

In that thread you wrote such things as:

Originally posted by CLewey44 CLewey44 wrote:

...some people bond better with others with a little icebreaker drink to help them relax.

Originally posted by CLewey44 CLewey44 wrote:

Most guys bond under the guise of a drink often historically in my opinion.

...and other such comments.

I have been a Mason for many years and I have made friends for life throughout my Masonic travels... all without the "benefit" of alcohol. 

And as I said in this post and your other one, I have no objection to alcohol on a moral or religious basis and I have been known to go to a local establishment after a meeting for a beer. And I know this is going to sound harsh, but if you "loosen up" with a couple of drinks before a meeting and you show up showing the signs of being even the least bit impaired, I won't let you into my lodge.

EDIT:

I know I may sound like a crusty old curmudgeon, but I have seen this before where a newcomer comes into a well-established organization (not just a Masonic lodge) and the first thing he wants to do is try and change it. This is usually because he had some preconceived notion of what that organization would be like and it turns out not to be that way or that he does not understand why things are done the way they are. According to your signature line, you are only a Fellowcraft. Now I don't say that to be demeaning in any way (even though it sounds like it), but it is only to point out that you have had a very limited exposure to Freemasonry and what goes on in a lodge.

Freemasonry as we know it has been around for nearly 300 years and the Grand Lodge of Oklahoma was chartered in 1892. While I have not read it, I am sure that a considerable amount of time and effort and energy went into writing their Constitution and Bylaws. And even though some parts of those documents may not make sense to you, every word in there is in there for a reason. Those documents were written by very knowledgeable men with years of Masonic experience and they have the best interest of Freemasons at heart. It is extremely difficult to make changes to these documents and for good reason. 

So again with all due respect, give Freemasonry a chance as it exists today before presuming to tell us old guys what needs to be changed. I am not saying that the system is perfect and that we don't need to change, but give it a chance and maybe after you have been a Master Mason for some period of time and maybe after you have sat in the East, then maybe you can then tells us old guys how things need to be changed.


Edited by WBScott - March/03/2015 at 4:24pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2015 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by boing1972 boing1972 wrote:

What I found is that the newer members don't want anything to do with the old ways, and the older ones who changed with the newer crowd, refuse to go back to the old ways because now they don't have to dress up,do anything, and use the lodge as a club house..

I found this post interesting, especially where you wrote that you have found that newer members don't want anything to do with the old ways.

Can you give examples where you have found that newer members don't want anything to do with the old ways? Which old ways?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2015 at 5:36pm
For example,dressing up for anything, the installations are now not a big thing.i watched a brothers installation from 20 years ago , and everyone was dressed up. The way it was performed was just wow.the rainbow girls did their thing. It was something I really would have loved to be apart of. Other things include ( at the few lodges we visit including my own. Use to have huge gatherings where masonic families were welcomed in the lodge, everyone was eager to do something. And everyone in my community knew our lodge and knew of the many great fund raising things.now we have ones that are there for recognition, and personal gain.......
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2015 at 6:29pm
"Now we have ones that are there for recognition, and personal gain," I have certainly seen that. When I have looked at it more closely though, when you come right down to it, in my experience anyway, the ones there for recognition and personal gain are initially in a minority. The problem is, they stand out like a loud minority. If left unchecked they drive others away and soon become predominant and it's very difficult if not impossible to repair the damage caused.

So to relate it to the subject of the thread, one of the things I would like to see changed is going back to the emphasis that when one is finished as Master, he goes right back to being no higher than a normal member. Sure, he holds the title "Past Master" and is given due respect and hopefully looked to for advice etc., but is no better or worse than anyone else. Inone of the lodges I belong to, it is customary for the outgoing Master to be Marshal the following year. He can sit near the Master and give prompts etc., but another reason is to instill in him the idea of humility.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2015 at 7:26pm
I understand what you're saying and honestly, I would never even try to change anything like that and I certainly don't have an image of guys sitting around drinking at lodge as a preconceived notion. With what little knowledge I have on the subject, it was really just something to ponder based on lodges in other parts of the world. "They do it, why don't we?" is really the question. As I said before, I had mentioned many other things in my initial post and certainly don't want to come off as some sort of alcoholic. That was a minimal part of it.

As for my cigar hour post, that was also just to see what most people thought. Not too many people voted and that's ok. Just curious. Masonry is great the way it is and I just wanted to mention some things that may peak others interest or get them thinking. I like other people's opinions. I'm a listener by nature I guess.

I'm now waiting on my date to be officially raised. I turned in my FC lesson last week. Very exciting and I can't wait until I reach that subliminal degree.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2015 at 4:33am
Well Brother, 
All that I can say is that it is accepted practice that one walks  before one can run. As yet, you have not reached the sublime degree and once you do, then you will hopefully realize the workings and difficulties of the running of a Lodge is no easy task!  Please do not take this as a personal criticism, but merely advice that just might save you unnecessary strife throughout your Masonic journey.
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Edited by Merv S - March/04/2015 at 2:57pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2015 at 6:09am
Originally posted by CLewey44 CLewey44 wrote:

..."They do it, why don't we?" is really the question.... 

Simple answer:  Because it does not have the support of the the majority of your Grand Lodge.

Originally posted by CLewey44 CLewey44 wrote:

...subliminal degree.

I think you mean "Sublime Degree".

sub·lime

adjective

1.  of such excellence, grandeur, or beauty as to inspire great admiration or awe.

 sub·lim·i·nal

adjective

1.       (of a stimulus or mental process) below the threshold of sensation or consciousness; perceived by or affecting someone's mind without their being aware of it.



Edited by YES - March/04/2015 at 6:10am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2015 at 12:34pm
I did spell that wrong. Was in a rush I guess. Here is another link for some ideas so everyone can move on from the alcohol thing. It's going to be ok.

http://www.mastermason.com/jjcrowder/information/info_files/Builduplodge.pdf
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2015 at 10:49pm
What do you think about wearing colonial wigs when voting in lodge ?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 7:18am
Well, shiver me timbers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 8:19am
There is a lodge here in Virginia, which performs degrees several times a year in full colonial regalia. Knee britches, waistcoats, wigs, the whole schmear. I think it is terrific! There is a lodge, which does degrees and the participants wear Scottish kilts, and there is bagpipe music.

"How many Virginians does it take to change a light bulb?" -


One to change the bulb, and 4 more, to set up a committee to preserve the old one!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 8:51am
Q: So again with all due respect, give Freemasonry a chance as it exists today before presuming to tell us old guys what needs to be changed. I am not saying that the system is perfect and that we don't need to change, but give it a chance and maybe after you have been a Master Mason for some period of time and maybe after you have sat in the East, then maybe you can then tells us old guys how things need to be changed.

end Quote.

I was made a Mason in 1982. I have been a Mason for 33 years. In that time, I have been a member of 7 lodges, and visited lodges in 14 states, Washington DC, and five foreign countries.

During that time, I have seen Masonry lose membership by the thousands. When I joined the Shrine in 1988, it had 990,000 members. Now the Shrine has about 400,000 members. Two of the lodges I have belonged to in the past have vanished. Gone with the wind.

I have said, time and again, that I am NOT interested in changing Masonry Our ancient landmarks, and our rituals are part of the charm and appeal of the craft. I am however, very interested in changing and adapting the Masonic experience to the 21st century, and the new demographic realities.

The aging of our membership cohort, is forcing changes on us. With fewer of our membership able to go out at night, we will need more daylight lodges. We can meet at noon on Saturday, and still participate in Ancient Craft Masonry.

The widespread penetration of social media, and the internet, has already changed the Masonic experience. Paper newsletters are almost obsolete. Fredericksburg Lodge #4 (VA) no longer publishes a paper newsletter, it is online only. The Grand Lodge of Kentucky no longer prints the Masonic Home Journal. Online only.

YouTube has excellent Masonic videos, where you can learn and study on the Craft, and the appendant bodies. I foresee a day when many lodges will have wide-screen TVs and the membership can enjoy instructional videos. Grand Masters can prepare a monthly pod-cast, and the membership can view it online, and also it will be played at the lodge hall on the widescreen TV.

More lodges are getting webpages, where the membership can keep up with the lodge. Men interested in Masonry can download a petition form, and submit it electronically.

Masonry has the choice of embracing these technologies, or refusing to do so.

The bottom line is, change is being forced onto the Craft, like it or not. We have the choice of managing these changes, or continuing to do nothing, as more lodges close, and the membership continues to decline.

I am all for experience. Keep in mind, that the Captain of the Titanic had more experience than any ship Captain, in the entire White Star Line. The boat still sank.

"We live in a world, in which the only constant is change" - Heraclitus 535BC - 475 BC
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 12:16pm

Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

…changing and adapting the Masonic experience to the 21st century, and the new demographic realities…

 

While demographic changes certainly influence Freemasonry to some degree, the reality of membership loss and age distribution is that societal and cultural changes are much more significant.  I will examine Masonic membership trends over two periods of time.  The discussion is general in nature.  Since I have not been able to find any data covering yearly changes broken down by new members, deaths, demits, and suspensions for nonpayment of dues I will not discuss how they influence total change in membership, except for the period during the Great Depression where it is commonly know that large numbers left Masonry simply because they were unable to pay their dues and that many of them did return when they could.

 

Great Depression and WWII (1925-1945)

 

The Masonic Service Association of  North America has Masonic Membership Statistics beginning in 1924[1]. The first loss in membership shown is 1929 which was the first year of the Great Depression (1929-1939)[2].  Membership continued to decline until 1942 with the largest loss of 167,887 occurring in 1933 and is also by far the largest loss to date.  While there undoubtedly were less men entering Masonry in 1929-1933, many members demitted or went suspended for nonpayment of dues.  Beginning in 1934 annual losses declined until 1942 when membership showed the first increase since the beginning of the great depression as many members were financially able to petition for reinstatement and affiliation. 

 

Post WWII and early years of the “Counterculture Revolution”

 

Even with a loss of over 400,000[3] men during WWII membership continued to increase with the largest increase of 201,370 occurring in 1946.  Annual increase began to decline in 1947 with the first post Great Depression loss occurring in 1960.  Although anti-establishment attitudes had become popular among the young prior to 1960, it is considered to be the beginning of the counterculture revolution”[4]   Membership loss has continued even as the “baby boomers” (born 1946-1964)[5] began to turn 21 and become eligible for Masonic Membership.

 

Although there has been a shift in age distribution in the U S with the population aging, this alone does not account for the fact that we have a disproportionate number of older members, and in fact it is a byproduct of the fact that we are getting a much smaller share of young men joining Masonry which ultimately resulted in the age distribution becoming skewed toward an aging membership.

 

In summary, while change is inevitable and there is nothing wrong with making changes to take advantage of  current technology, there are societal and cultural shifts and influences that are so large that nothing can be done to stop the resulting changes in Masonic membership.  The Great Depression and “Counterculture revolution” prove that.

 

 

 

 [1] http://www.msana.com/msastats.asp

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 12:20pm

Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

…I was made a Mason in 1982. I have been a Mason for 33 years. In that time, I have been a member of 7 lodges, and visited lodges in 14 states, Washington DC, and five foreign countries… 

 

That is all well and good, but have you ever served as an officer in a Lodge?  Have you been there in the “trenches” participating, serving, helping confer degrees, and doing all of the other things that are necessary for a Lodge to function from day to day?

 

It is clear that you are a malcontent and take an adversarial stance toward your own as well as other Grand Lodges based on your numerous, relentless, and vociferous critical online postings about them.

 

Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I am the Mason, who got the Kentucky state legislature to authorize Masonic license plates for the state of KY….

http://forum.mastermason.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12323&PID=137297#137297

 

You posted this comment in another topic.  I was curious if you were able to do this without the Grand Lodge of Kentucky being involved, but either you have not seen my question or you have failed to respond.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by YES YES wrote:


Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I am the Mason, who got the Kentucky state legislature to authorize Masonic license plates for the state of KY….

http://forum.mastermason.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12323&PID=137297#137297

 

You posted this comment in another topic.  I was curious if you were able to do this without the Grand Lodge of Kentucky being involved, but either you have not seen my question or you have failed to respond.


I was curious about that too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 2:46pm
That is all well and good, but have you ever served as an officer in a Lodge? Have you been there in the “trenches” participating, serving, helping confer degrees, and doing all of the other things that are necessary for a Lodge to function from day to day?

= I have never had the honor of serving my beloved Craft as an officer. Less than one year after I was raised, I was transferred to Mozambique, Africa. My career has required frequent moves. I have worked from Maine to California, and 16 years in foreign countries.

I have started a Square and Compass Club, in Iraq. I took control of Land Sea, and Air Lodge #1, in Al Asad, Iraq. The Grand Lodge of New York (which holds the charter) did not issue a charter for the lodge to operate, there. We set up a S&C club.

I have served in many degrees, and in many capacities, over my masonic career. I have participated in many fund-raisers,etc.



It is clear that you are a malcontent and take an adversarial stance toward your own as well as other Grand Lodges based on your numerous, relentless, and vociferous critical online postings about them.

--I am not a malcontent. "Content" is from latin root for "happy". I not unhappy with Masonry, I am just concerned about the direction that it is taking.

If I see the Craft is taking a path, which is wrong, and not in the best interests of Masonry, I will say so. Masonry is a human institution, not a religion. The Craft, and Grand Lodges are not immune to criticism.




Edited by cemab4y - March/07/2015 at 2:52pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 2:50pm




Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

… I am the Mason, who got the Kentucky state legislature to authorize Masonic license plates for the state of KY….


http://forum.mastermason.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12323&PID=137297#137297



You posted this comment in another topic. I was curious if you were able to do this without the Grand Lodge of Kentucky being involved, but either you have not seen my question or you have failed to respond.


I never saw the question, when you posted it originally.

When I decided that Kentucky Masons should have the ability to obtain a Masonic license plate, I did NOT go to the Grand Lodge. If I had, they would have debated it to death, and said "We never had a license plate before", and the project never would have gotten off the ground.

I accomplished the task, by going straight to my state senator. I got a copy of the Pennsylvania legislation, and he just crossed out "Pennsylvania", and wrote in "Kentucky". He then submitted it to the legislature, for passage. Now the masons of Kentucky can get an official plate, and the Grand Lodge of Kentucky gets a $7 rebate on every plate sold.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:


...I accomplished the task, by going straight to my state senator...

Was your state senator a Mason or did he have an interest in Masonry?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 2:59pm
I was just driving in Alexandria VA. I heard an announcement on the radio, about the history of Masonry. The announcement was sponsored by the Grand Lodge of Maryland. The spot said that many famous men were Masons, and that you should consider membership. The spot announced a website

http://www.mdmasons.org/become-a-mason/askamarylandmason

I checked the website, and it is terrific.

This is exactly the kind of change, that Grand Lodges should be taking! We need to advertise on the radio, TV, etc. New Jersey has billboards, advertising for membership.



Edited by cemab4y - March/07/2015 at 3:10pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by YES YES wrote:


Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:


...I accomplished the task, by going straight to my state senator...


Was your state senator a Mason or did he have an interest in Masonry?


--No. He was not a Mason, and had almost no idea about Masonry.

Edited by cemab4y - March/07/2015 at 3:03pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

Originally posted by YES YES wrote:


Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:


...I accomplished the task, by going straight to my state senator...


Was your state senator a Mason or did he have an interest in Masonry?


--No. He was not a Mason, and had almost no idea about Masonry.

So what year was the legislation enacted, what was the Senate Bill number and what was the Senator's name?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 4:32pm
I believe it was in 1992. The Kentucky state legislature meets every two years, on the even numbered years. My state senator (at that time) was Dr. Nicholas Kafoglis. I don't remember the bill number. The current Kentucky legislation can be viewed at

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/statute.aspx?id=5965
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 5:14pm

"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds."

Samuel Adams, Patriot

"Experience is the jockey, Education is the horse"

-Clark Gable, Actor, Philosopher, Freemason

"Do not seek to change what has come before. Seek to create that which has not." - David Airey

“I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”

― Thomas Jefferson



Edited by cemab4y - March/07/2015 at 5:16pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by YES YES wrote:


So what year was the legislation enacted, what was the Senate Bill number and what was the Senator's name?


I'm sorry, but your strong persistent concern with this license plate issue has me puzzled. Why are you so interested in this?   

Edited by Adept? - March/07/2015 at 8:43pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 9:51pm
I'm sorry brothers, but I'm finding reposting quotes a hand full of times a pain.if we read back a little, we can figure out who said what and whom replied to what... but this is my opinion .......
brother bell
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2015 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by boing1972 boing1972 wrote:

I'm sorry brothers, but I'm finding reposting quotes a hand full of times a pain.if we read back a little, we can figure out who said what and whom replied to what... but this is my opinion .......


Noted.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2015 at 7:32am
Originally posted by Adept? Adept? wrote:

 

I'm sorry, but your strong persistent concern with this license plate issue has me puzzled. Why are you so interested in this?   

You originally asked how does that issue affect member Yes or anyone else. I think it is highly unusual for someone to singlehandedly get legislation passed and highly unusual for a grand lodge not to be involved when legislation is passed affecting Masons in their jurisdiction, so if someone makes such a claim, I think it is reasonable to ask them to substantiate their claim.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2015 at 7:51am
Originally posted by droche droche wrote:

Originally posted by Adept? Adept? wrote:

 

I'm sorry, but your strong persistent concern with this license plate issue has me puzzled. Why are you so interested in this?   

You originally asked how does that issue affect member Yes or anyone else. I think it is highly unusual for someone to singlehandedly get legislation passed and highly unusual for a grand lodge not to be involved when legislation is passed affecting Masons in their jurisdiction, so if someone makes such a claim, I think it is reasonable to ask them to substantiate their claim.

Exactly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2015 at 9:15am

Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

…When I decided that Kentucky Masons should have the ability to obtain a Masonic license plate, I did NOT go to the Grand Lodge. If I had, they would have debated it to death, and said "We never had a license plate before", and the project never would have gotten off the ground.

I accomplished the task, by going straight to my state senator. I got a copy of the Pennsylvania legislation, and he just crossed out "Pennsylvania", and wrote in "Kentucky". He then submitted it to the legislature, for passage. Now the masons of Kentucky can get an official plate, and the Grand Lodge of Kentucky gets a $7 rebate on every plate sold. 

 When I first saw his claim, I thought it unlikely that a State Legislature would pass an act affecting the Grand Lodge of that state without some input or agreement from the Grand Lodge.  Once the plate was authorized it would have to be designed and certainly that design would have to be approved by the Grand Lodge.  The documentation required for authorization to purchase the plate would also have to be determined; again Grand Lodge input would almost certainly be required.  Further if the Grand Lodge did not approve or consent to the plate then the Grand Master would in all likelihood issue an edict prohibiting their purchase or display by members of the Grand Lodge.

 The claim that the Senator “just crossed out ‘Pennsylvania’, and wrote in ‘Kentucky’. He then submitted it to the legislature, for passage” is also highly suspect since the proposed legislation would be changing an existing Kentucky statute, the legislation would have to specifically reference the existing Kentucky statute.

 After a little research it became obvious that there were inconsistencies in the story.  While the legislation was introduced in 1992, it was not introduced by the Senator, it was a House Bill introduced by two representatives:

/LRC_Sessions/92RS/bills/hb731.htm (2 hits)



HB 731/LM (BR 2269) - R. Adkins, R. Bentley 


AN ACT relating to special license plates. 
Create new section of KRS Chapter 186 to provide for special license plates 
for members of Masonic Orders; specify registration procedure; fee; renewal. 

HB 731 - AMENDMENTS 
HCA (1, Little) - Require 500 requests for masonic license plates before 
the Transportation Cabinet is required to provide the plates. 


Feb 28-to Transportation 
Mar 6-posted in committee 
Mar 12-reported favorably, 1st reading, to Calendar with committee 
amendment (1) 
Mar 13-2nd reading, to Rules 
Mar 16-posted for passage in the Regular Orders of the Day for Tuesday, 
March 17, 1992 
Mar 17-3rd reading, passed 81-5 with committee amendment (1) 
Mar 18-received in Senate 
Mar 19-to Transportation 
Mar 24-reported favorably, 1st reading, to Calendar 
Mar 25-2nd reading, to Rules 
Mar 27-posted for passage in the Regular Orders of the Day for March 30, 
1992 
Mar 30-3rd reading, passed 25-8; received in House 
Mar 31-enrolled, signed by each presiding officer, delivered to Governor 
Apr 10-signed by Governor 



LRC Search Engine(7.68 (x64) (8025))

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/lrcsearch

 While I am inclined to think the story is total BS, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and just say you must have had a “Brian Williams moment”.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2015 at 9:16am
That is exactly what happened.

Here is the "Cliff's Notes" version:

1) I read an article, that stated that New Jersey and Pennsylvania had official Masonic license plates.

2)I asked my state senator, to get similar legislation passed in Kentucky. He told me to a get a copy of the Pennsylvania law. I obtained a copy of the law from the clerk of the Pennsylvania legislature. I saw the draft proposal, where he inserted "Kentucky".

3) I did NOT approach the Grand Lodge of Kentucky. They would have stalled it, or killed it, or said "We never had a license plate before".

4) My senator introduced the legislation ( with assistance ) and got it passed.

Done Deal!

--Keep in mind, that all this occurred over 22 years ago. The motor vehicle statues in Kentucky have almost certainly gone through some revisions and updates during the intervening years.

Edited by cemab4y - March/09/2015 at 1:21pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2015 at 11:11am
Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

That is exactly what happened.

Here is the "Cliff's Notes" version:

1) I read an article, that stated that New Jersey and Pennsylvania had official Masonic license plates.

2)I asked my state senator, to get similar legislation passed in Kentucky. He told me to a get a copy of the Pennsylvania law. I obtained a copy of the law from the clerk of the Pennsylvania legislature. I saw the draft proposal, where he inserted "Kentucky".

3) I did NOT approach the Grand Lodge of Kentucky. They would have stalled it, or killed it, or said "We never had a license plate before".

4) My senator introduced the legislation ( with assistance ) and got it passed.

Done Deal!

--Keep in mind, that all this occurred over 12 years ago. The motor vehicle statues in Kentucky have almost certainly gone through some revisions and updates during the intervening years.

Yeah, I know that’s your story and you are sticking to it.  But, facts are stubborn things.

I also know, as I previously stated, that you take an adversarial stance toward the Grand Lodge of Kentucky as well as other Grand Lodges  and like to present them in a bad light as evidenced by this letter to you from the Grand Master of Kentucky posted by you on your blog:

“Letter from the Grand Master of Masons in KY to me.

(This letter is an EXACT copy of a communication from the Grand Master of Masons in KY. It is published VERBATIM)

(Small portion, not related to the text has been deleted)

you have again tried to mask your situation and use the cloak ofthis fraternity for your own betterment. You continue to berate, insultand generally to fault everyone and every Grand Lodge or Grand Lodgeofficer be it Kentucky, New York, etc. You use masonry for your ownpurpose! You have here again tried to mask your actions and get theapproval through everyone else rather than looking at yourself to see ifyou really are a mason or just a man using masonry for himself. In you blogs you have continued to throw everything and anyone that doesnot do or say what you want to them say about Masonry to the side asbeneath you and your brothers. You use Masonry, rather than practicingMasonry. Masonry is not a item or a card it is a belief that we as brothers canwork together as a band of brothers cemented by our obligation to upholdthe Constitution practice Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth! Our Honorand Integrity before all else. You Sir, have, in my opinion, used thisfraternity as an item for your own discussion and advancement in trying toprove yourself something you or not! This is a shame that a man of your ability has tried to take thisfraternity and put it on display for his own amusement or advancement. Inall of your blogs, you always refer to "I" rather than "we". It is alwaysyou that stands to do battle with the Grand Lodges. This Sir is not abattle it is a love that each of us has about the fraternity and eachother. Sir, if nothing else remember this......"You represent this fraternity inthe world 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year! Does youractions each day prove you to be a Mason? Remember someone each day willsee you for what you are in this world and does your actions representthis fraternity?" Keith DreierGrand Master”

http://www.cemab4y.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html



Edited by YES - March/08/2015 at 11:14am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2015 at 3:47pm
Wow... Some context would be nice, but still...wow. That is one agitated grand master.

Edited by Adept? - March/08/2015 at 3:48pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2015 at 4:55pm
Keep in mind that I myself posted that letter on my blog. I want people to see it. There are no secrets on the internet.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 1:31pm
The letter which I posted from the GM of Kentucky (2008), was the result of some actions that I took when I lived in Iraq/Afghanistan. I set up a Square and Compasses club in Al Asad, Iraq. This was not a working lodge, just a club so that Masons there could share some fellowship.

In the setting up of the club, I contacted a Mason in New Jersey, to get his advice and counsel. I wanted to incorporate as a non-profit corporation in New Jersey, so that we could have a US bank account. We needed to purchase various items for the club.

The GM of Masons (KY) found out about my reaching out to a Mason outside of my home jurisdiction for advice. I basically told him to mind his own business, I can communicate with any individual I like, and seek advice.

Some of the comments he made were way off base. I have never used Masonry for my own betterment. On the contrary, I have donated many hours to the Craft, and served Masonry for many years, often in very dangerous areas.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 2:17pm
I have managed to irritate several Grand Masters. I once set up a Masonic Square and Compass club in Bowling Green KY. The GM of Masons called me at home, and told me not to have the club. I told him, that I would have breakfast with anyone I wished. If we wanted to call our club a "Square and Compass Club" we would.

"Only a dead fish goes downstream all the time" -Author unknown

Edited by cemab4y - March/10/2015 at 8:36am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 7:26pm
Having read the several recent posts, I have but one thing to say.
To paraphrase my Australian brothers and assorted relatives/friends and directed to Bro. Charles, cemab4y.....  "Good on ya, mate!!!"

I learned a long time ago, we will either make progress with (their) help, or in spite of it.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 10:58pm
Umm, I think this post from 2008 will clarify that the Kentucky suspension was for attending a Prince Hall lodge meeting when they were not in Amity with the grand Lodge of Kentucky.


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     Posted Thu 24 April 2008 12:46 AM     Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by prdavis32:
If you have not attended a PH lodge, how can you be expelled?


I should have been more clear. I attended a PH lodge, here in Iraq on April 5,2008. Prior to this date, I had never attended a PH lodge before.

The GL of Kentucky is preparing charges, and I will be expelled from the GL of Kentucky.

end of quote
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 7:06am

Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I have managed to irritate several Grand Masters. I once set up a Masonic Square and Compass club in Bowling Green KY. The GM of Masons called me at home, and told me not to have the club. I told him, that I would have breakfast with anyone I wished. If we wanted to call our club a "Square and Club" we would…

You may think that, but I suspect the Grand Master saw it differently based on the Grand Lodge of Kentucky Constitution:

Hereafter no Mason within the jurisdiction of this Grand Lodge shall engage in the formation or become a member of  any organization basing its eligibility to membership therein upon symbolic lodge membership unless such organization shall have received the formal approval of this Grand Lodge.

 https://grandlodgeofkentucky.org/publications/Constitution/Constitution2014_rev_2-23-15.pdf (p. 34)

Also, are you aware that it is an important matter of Masonic protocol, that no attempt should be made to contact a Grand Lodge  directly (or one of its subordinate Lodges), until such time as a brother is within the jurisdiction of  that Grand Lodge.   At all other times, brethren should make contact via the Grand Secretary of their own Grand Lodge? 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 8:28am
Originally posted by Cookslc Cookslc wrote:

...the Kentucky suspension ...

The GL of Kentucky is preparing charges, and I will be expelled from the GL of Kentucky.

end of quote


Sooooo... are you suspended or expelled cemab4y???

Edited by Adept? - March/10/2015 at 8:29am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 8:52am
A couple of points. I am NOT suspended nor expelled from Masonry. I am a MM in good standing. In 2008, I attended a dinner at the PH lodge in Taji Iraq. It was NOT a tyled meeting. But the word got back to the GL of KY, and I was brought up on charges. At the time, I was member BOTH of lodges in Kentucky and New York (New York has full fraternal relations with PH Masonry). Even though the dinner meeting that I attended was not a tyled lodge meeting, and I did not show a dues card, nor was I examined by the tyler. I was tried in absentia, and I had no chance to present the facts, I was suspended from Kentucky Masonry for one year. I was not suspended from New York Masonry.

I started a breakfast club in KY, for individuals who were interested in Masonry. NO one had to be a MM in good standing, and symbolic lodge membership was NOT required to meet with us, and have breakfast once a month. Therefore, the KY regulations prohibiting organizations which require Masonic membership did NOT apply. The only requirement for participation in the Square and Compass club, was that the individual have an interest in Masonry.

I was living in Iraq, which has no Grand Lodge. I needed some advice on an accounting matter. I approached a Mason who was a CPA in New Jersey. and got some advice. I never approached the Grand Lodge of New Jersey, not any of their subordinate lodges.

Also keep in mind, that the Grand Lodge of New York, contacted me during my time in Iraq, and asked me to assist with the operation of Land, Sea, and Air Lodge #1. I was glad to help. I even joined a New York Lodge. New York was in communications with PH Masonry, and our square and compass club was open to anyone who was interested in Masonry. We never held a tyled meeting, because we had no charter.

Once, a mason from Washington state (in Iraq), asked me for advice about Washington Masonry. I helped him to contact the Grand Secretary of his Grand Lodge.

Once, I was in Afghanistan. I was attending a Canadian military lodge operating in Afghanistan. The worshipful master was from Holland. The lodge used some ritual from the Grand Lodge of Turkey. At the time, I was a member of lodges in Kentucky, Massachusetts, and New York.

During that time, Afghanistan had no Grand Lodge.

SO tell me, if a mason from Kentucky/Mass/New York is attending a Canadian lodge (In Afghanistan), operating under Turkish ritual, whose worshipful master is from Holland, under whose jurisdiction is he? Where should he go for Masonic advice?

Edited by cemab4y - March/10/2015 at 9:04am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 11:46am

It is hard to keep up with what you claim the facts to be since you have stated them differently on various occasions depending on the impression you are trying to make at the time.  The following are quotes from various posts:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

The only requirement for participation in the Square and Compass club, was that the individual have an interest in Masonry.

 But you previously said:

 

Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I set up a Square and Compasses club in Al Asad, Iraq. This was not a working lodge, just a club so that Masons there could share some fellowship.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I attended a dinner at the PH lodge in Taji Iraq. It was NOT a tyled meeting

 But you made these comments in 2 posts on another forum in April 2008 which is a contemporaneous account of the incident.

 Post 1 April 11, 2008 3:19 am 11008 03:19 AM

“A Man belongs to two(2) different lodges in two(2) different states. He therefore, belongs to two(2) different grand Lodges, in the two(2) respective states.

One of his Grand Lodges is in full communications with Prince Hall Grand Lodges in nearly all of the states, and abroad. One of his Grand Lodges is NOT in communications with Prince Hall, anywhere, and considers all Prince Hall lodges and Grand Lodges to be "clandestine".

Suppose this man visits and fellowships with a Prince Hall lodge, that is in full communications with one of his Grand Lodges, and this Grand Lodge has accepted the Prince Hall lodge as "regular"?

Should this man visit and fellowship with Prince Hall lodges? Since one of his Grand Lodges is perfectly all right with visitation/fellowship, is he in violation of any regulations? Should the non-recognizing Grand Lodge, discipline or expel him?”

 Post 2 April 14, 2008 5:27 am

“As a New York Mason, I believed that my New York membership permitted me to visit lodges that were in communications with the Grand Lodge of New York. Just like joining a different lodge, so that you can serve the lodge as an officer, joining a different lodge grants you new privileges.” 

http://excoboard.com/exco/archive.php?ac=t&forumid=54969&date=08-24-2011&t=1463991-1

There is no indication here that your visit was just a dinner meeting, and although you were wrong, it clearly indicates that since you belonged to a Lodge under the Grand Lodge of New York you could visit PH lodges.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I never approached the Grand Lodge of New Jersey, not any of their subordinate lodges.

That is true.  However the letter from the Grand Master of Kentucky did not mention the Grand Lodge of New Jersey he did mention the Grand Lodge of New York and by your own admission you did contact both the Grand Secretary and Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of New York:

 22 June 2006

“I requested the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge of KY to issue a document, verifying my Masonic status, but this document must be requested from New York. I contacted the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge of New York, and requested that he secure the necessary documents.”

http://www.cemab4y.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_archive.html

 You also posted a letter to the Grand Lodge of New York on July 15, 2007.  It is very length so I will just include the link.  While I will not say that the letter is hostile, I will say that the tone is confrontational.

http://www.cemab4y.blogspot.com/2007_07_01_archive.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I SO tell me, if a mason from Kentucky/Mass/New York is attending a Canadian lodge (In Afghanistan), operating under Turkish ritual, whose worshipful master is from Holland, under whose jurisdiction is he? Where should he go for Masonic advice?

A Mason who is not a member of a Lodge in the jurisdiction, but is sojourning or residing within the jurisdictional area of a Grand Lodge, is subject to the laws of that Grand Lodge as well as the laws of any Grand Lodge he is a member of.

 So, based on the information you provided, I am certainly not an expert but in my opinion, I do not think the Canadian Grand Lodge would claim that Afghanistan was within their jurisdictional area and neither the ritual being worked or where the Worshipful Master is from would have any bearing on the matter. But, regardless of where you are residing you are always subject to the Laws of any Grand Lodge to which you may be a member.  Since you were a member of 3 Grand Lodges you would be obliged to abide by the laws of all three and  there is only one way you can do that, and that is to abide by the strictest law of any of the Grand Lodges that have jurisdiction over you.  So, in this case although you may have been permitted to visit a PH Lodge under the Grand Lodge of New York, you would not commit an offence by not attending.  On the other hand, by attending a PH Lodge, you did commit an offence under the Grand Lodge of Kentucky.

While, this may have caused you to be conflicted due to your personal convictions, there was a simple solution available.  You could have simply demitted from the Grand Lodge of Kentucky.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 1:54pm
It is hard to keep up with what you claim the facts to be since you have stated them differently on various occasions depending on the impression you are trying to make at the time. The following are quotes from various posts:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

The only requirement for participation in the Square and Compass club, was that the individual have an interest in Masonry.


But you previously said:



Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I set up a Square and Compasses club in Al Asad, Iraq. This was not a working lodge, just a club so that Masons there could share some fellowship.


--You are arguing a semantic point. The Square and Compasses club I set up in Iraq, was so that men who were interested in Masonry, could fellowship. Of course, most of the members were Masons. But many were NOT Masons, and we never checked dues cards, nor required that any members be Masons. The club was NOT set up to be a Masonic lodge, nor was the membership ever restricted to Masons. The regulation you cite from the GL of Kentucky, is only applicable to appendant bodies, which by their own rules, restrict the membership to Masons. A club, operating in a foreign country, which is open to ANYONE who is interested in Masonry, is not under this rule.


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Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I attended a dinner at the PH lodge in Taji Iraq. It was NOT a tyled meeting


But you made these comments in 2 posts on another forum in April 2008 which is a contemporaneous account of the incident.

Post 1 April 11, 2008 3:19 am 11008 03:19 AM

“A Man belongs to two(2) different lodges in two(2) different states. He therefore, belongs to two(2) different grand Lodges, in the two(2) respective states.

One of his Grand Lodges is in full communications with Prince Hall Grand Lodges in nearly all of the states, and abroad. One of his Grand Lodges is NOT in communications with Prince Hall, anywhere, and considers all Prince Hall lodges and Grand Lodges to be "clandestine".

Suppose this man visits and fellowships with a Prince Hall lodge, that is in full communications with one of his Grand Lodges, and this Grand Lodge has accepted the Prince Hall lodge as "regular"?

Should this man visit and fellowship with Prince Hall lodges? Since one of his Grand Lodges is perfectly all right with visitation/fellowship, is he in violation of any regulations? Should the non-recognizing Grand Lodge, discipline or expel him?”

---This is a hypothetical situation, I was posing the question, to see what the readers of my blog thought, and to stimulate conversation and comments. I got a blizzard of replies.

Post 2 April 14, 2008 5:27 am

“As a New York Mason, I believed that my New York membership permitted me to visit lodges that were in communications with the Grand Lodge of New York. Just like joining a different lodge, so that you can serve the lodge as an officer, joining a different lodge grants you new privileges.”

http://excoboard.com/exco/archive.php?ac=t&forumid=54969&date=08-24-2011&t=1463991-1

There is no indication here that your visit was just a dinner meeting, and although you were wrong, it clearly indicates that since you belonged to a Lodge under the Grand Lodge of New York you could visit PH lodges.

--Again, semantics. In Taji, Iraq there was no lodge building. The masonic lodge there met in an old garage building. I attended the dinner at the fried chicken place, and ate with them. I was never asked to show a dues card, I was not tried, and I did not sign the visitor's roster. When I say "the lodge", I mean the group of Masons that I met with.

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Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I never approached the Grand Lodge of New Jersey, not any of their subordinate lodges.


That is true. However the letter from the Grand Master of Kentucky did not mention the Grand Lodge of New Jersey he did mention the Grand Lodge of New York and by your own admission you did contact both the Grand Secretary and Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of New York:

22 June 2006

“I requested the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge of KY to issue a document, verifying my Masonic status, but this document must be requested from New York. I contacted the Grand Secretary of the Grand Lodge of New York, and requested that he secure the necessary documents.”

---The Grand Lodge of New York (and one New York Mason) approached me in Iraq, and asked me to assist in the establishment of a New York traveling military lodge at Al Asad, Iraq. It is important to establish, that they contacted me first. I responded, and agreed to help. (I have donated many hours to this Craft).

Since I was physically present in Iraq, which has no Grand Lodge, I was not under any restrictions with assisting Masons from any other jurisdiction. I am under oath to help and assist brother Master Masons. I was glad to help.

Of course, as the project progressed, I had to keep the GL of New York informed. After all, it was their lodge, and they controlled the charter. I agreed to take out dual membership with Master Builder Lodge #911 (Tonawanda NY). Since I was going to be operating in an (overseas) New York lodge, and possibly serving as an officer, I was directed by the GL to join a New York lodge. As it turned out, I never held a tyled meeting, and never served as an officer.

http://www.cemab4y.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_archive.html

You also posted a letter to the Grand Lodge of New York on July 15, 2007. It is very length so I will just include the link. While I will not say that the letter is hostile, I will say that the tone is confrontational.

http://www.cemab4y.blogspot.com/2007_07_01_archive.html

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Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I SO tell me, if a mason from Kentucky/Mass/New York is attending a Canadian lodge (In Afghanistan), operating under Turkish ritual, whose worshipful master is from Holland, under whose jurisdiction is he? Where should he go for Masonic advice?


A Mason who is not a member of a Lodge in the jurisdiction, but is sojourning or residing within the jurisdictional area of a Grand Lodge, is subject to the laws of that Grand Lodge as well as the laws of any Grand Lodge he is a member of.

So, based on the information you provided, I am certainly not an expert but in my opinion, I do not think the Canadian Grand Lodge would claim that Afghanistan was within their jurisdictional area and neither the ritual being worked or where the Worshipful Master is from would have any bearing on the matter. But, regardless of where you are residing you are always subject to the Laws of any Grand Lodge to which you may be a member. Since you were a member of 3 Grand Lodges you would be obliged to abide by the laws of all three and there is only one way you can do that, and that is to abide by the strictest law of any of the Grand Lodges that have jurisdiction over you. So, in this case although you may have been permitted to visit a PH Lodge under the Grand Lodge of New York, you would not commit an offence by not attending. On the other hand, by attending a PH Lodge, you did commit an offence under the Grand Lodge of Kentucky.

While, this may have caused you to be conflicted due to your personal convictions, there was a simple solution available. You could have simply demitted from the Grand Lodge of Kentucky.

--I never considered demitting, just so I could have a plate of fried chicken with some men who were risking their lives in Iraq.
Charles E. Martin

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Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM)

Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 3:38pm
@cema4by

Yeah, I know the dance, you are right and everybody else is wrong, yada yada yada.  You can attempt to obfuscate and claim that it is a matter of semantics, but what I have posted are your exact words.

The section of the Kentucky Constitution I quoted does list the Grand Bodies that it considers legitimate Masonic Bodies, however the part that I quoted says "any organization" while you may interpret this to mean only "appendant bodies",  I challenge you to contact your Grand Lodge and get an official interpretation as to whether this covers clubs such as "High Twelve", "Square and Compass", "Widows Sons", etc.

Also out of curiosity, what PH GL chartered the PH lodge in question. and, in what issue of the Northern Lights did you see the article about Pennsylvania and New Jersey Masonic license plates?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 4:37pm
The regulation applies to organizations which require members to be master masons. Since the club we started only had the requirement that the member be interested in Masonry, the regulation does not apply.

I agree that the regulation applies to organizations like "High Twelve". etc. These organizations require the member to be a MM in good standing. Our club was NOT a masonic body. Only a discussion group, out in the Iraqi desert, and no member was required to be a MM.

I don't remember which PH Grand Lodge chartered the lodge in Taji Iraq. I never saw the charter, and I never asked. The MWPHGL of Oklahoma did charter several lodges in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Way back in 1990, when I was working in Columbus OH, I read a small article in the "Northern Light", the journal of the Scottish Rite Northern Jurisdiction. This was over a quarter of a century ago, and I do not remember the month and year of the issue I read.

I agree that you did a cut and paste from some of the postings from my blog. But you pull them out of context, and without the background of the events.

Edited by cemab4y - March/10/2015 at 4:39pm
Charles E. Martin

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Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 11:07pm
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Ya'll need to put this behind you!    It's 6 years old.   cemab4y was tried in absentia and suspended for 1 year by the GL of KY.     I think all of Gl of Ky evidence came from cemab4y' blog and was misunderstood.     .... Anyway rehashing this is off-topic of the thread  ... move on ...

...  someone please get me some aspirins   ...
"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2015 at 8:51am
I agree. I suggest we let ancient history drop. Let's get the discussion back on point. What would you like to see changed? I am talking about administrative changes, and adapting the Masonic experience to the 21st century, and our new demographic realities.

We can have on-line payment of dues, and still be true to our Masonic "roots" .

We can have more daylight lodges, to accommodate our older brothers, who cannot get out at night.

We can have degree work on the weekends, so that men who have a long commute, can participate in Masonry.

We can have modern, state-of-the-art webpages, and still keep our ancient landmarks.
Charles E. Martin

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Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2015 at 8:57am
One adaptation that I would love to see, is more informal organizations, and fellowship outside the tyled lodge. I first was introduced to "Square and Compass" clubs, when I lived in New Hampshire in 1982. Most NH lodges are dark during the summer months. So, the lodges in NH have established these "Square and Compass" clubs, so that the Masons in the Granite State, can have fellowship, barbecues, family activities, etc, when the lodges are shut down in the summer.

I believe that this terrific idea, should be emulated by more Masons nationwide. The meetings are OPEN, and the activities for the families are excellent. You can bring guests, and give them an introduction to Freemasonry. Often, men who are introduced to the Craft, through a "Square and Compass" club or a "Widow's Son" club will ask for a petition and join the Craft.

Charles E. Martin

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Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM)

Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA)
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