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    Posted: February/20/2011 at 6:28pm
I hope I don't offend anyone or if I am wrong asking this, but has anyone ever heard of any hazing going on during initiations?  A very close friend of mine was in town for the weekend and over dinner this evening I told him I joined the Freemasons.  I could tell it kind of bothered him, so I asked why this bothered him.  As it turns out he petitioned a lodge while he was in the military, but after his petition was accepted he started talking to other Masons he served with.  They only had great things to say about the brotherhood, but the things that bothered him were the comments of how his behind is going to be sore for a few weeks, etc, etc.  He said he did some research and said this didn't sound right, but then he spoke to our old division officer and he pretty much confirmed this.  The reason this bothers me is because I also spoke to my old division officer and he said the day I am raised "will be a long and exhausting day".  I understand there are many so called Freemason lodges, but I checked the Lodge he petitioned and it is recognized by the Grand Lodge.  Does anyone have further information they can give to help me sort this out.  Also, I did tell him about my lodge, and told him they gave me their word nothing would happen to me that would embarrass me and that there is no hazing allowed.  They said no one would ever put their hands on another Brother, including a candidate, and so far this has all been true.  I am just having a really hard time with this, as it seems like very unmasonic behavior, and would like to hear some input.

Thank you everyone in advance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tm274 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by tomm1999 tomm1999 wrote:

I hope I don't offend anyone or if I am wrong asking this, but has anyone ever heard of any hazing going on during initiations?  A very close friend of mine was in town for the weekend and over dinner this evening I told him I joined the Freemasons.  I could tell it kind of bothered him, so I asked why this bothered him.  As it turns out he petitioned a lodge while he was in the military, but after his petition was accepted he started talking to other Masons he served with.  They only had great things to say about the brotherhood, but the things that bothered him were the comments of how his behind is going to be sore for a few weeks, etc, etc.  He said he did some research and said this didn't sound right, but then he spoke to our old division officer and he pretty much confirmed this.  The reason this bothers me is because I also spoke to my old division officer and he said the day I am raised "will be a long and exhausting day".  I understand there are many so called Freemason lodges, but I checked the Lodge he petitioned and it is recognized by the Grand Lodge.  Does anyone have further information they can give to help me sort this out.  Also, I did tell him about my lodge, and told him they gave me their word nothing would happen to me that would embarrass me and that there is no hazing allowed.  They said no one would ever put their hands on another Brother, including a candidate, and so far this has all been true.  I am just having a really hard time with this, as it seems like very unmasonic behavior, and would like to hear some input.


Thank you everyone in advance
Hazing is NOT acceptable in any Lodge. 
The "bold" part above is ever so true and you are right......it is un Masonic behaviour.
The best person to speak to about it, if you have any furher doubts is, your WM.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noblewiebe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 6:37pm
I think that I would be running this by the Grand Lodge of that particular jursdiction. But, before doing so I would try and establish whether or not they are mearly pulling his leg.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caution1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 6:41pm
Lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 7:12pm
There was no hazing and should NEVER be any in any lodge. Some friends of mine did joke about riding the goat, wearing clean underwear, and a few other things. ALL of them were said as a joke and taken that way. I have seen a few other 1st and 2nd degrees so far and there was none involved with those either. This is not a college frat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 7:28pm
Hazing or any type of physical roughness is not condoned in regular Masonic Lodges.    ... But there does seen to be hazing in some Clandestine Lodges.   ... There has been reports of Hazing by young college Masons that came from Greek Frats. Mostly reported as being in a PHA Lodge; but none of this has been proven.  .... The Lodge will loose its Charter if proven (PHA or MS).  

The Military Lodge you mentioned, I can not say one way or the other. I don't know the GL jurisdiction.  But if it is a PHA or MS Lodge, hazing is not permitted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cemab4y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 7:43pm
I have attended lodges in 13 states, WashDC, and 5 foreign countries. Candidates are treated with decorum and respect. Hazing is not tolerated. I would immediately walk out of any lodge, which attempted any such conduct, and report that lodge to their Grand Lodge. 
 
Some individuals may "joke" about things, making references to certain spoofs that you may have seen on TV or in some silly movies like "Animal House".
 
Masonry is a serious subject. The ceremonies are deep and meaningful, and life-changing. You will experience things (mentally), that you have not imagined. But, you will treated properly and respectfully every inch of the way.
 
If you decide to petition our Sacred Order, our working tools, will become your working tools. You will walk a new walk, learn a new language, and make the journey towards self-improvement and enlightenment.
 
All I can do is promise you, that there will be no hazing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BroClaude357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 8:01pm

From what i have heard, clandestine lodges like International are very much into hazing. I know a brother who initially went to them (before he knew better) said he got the feeling that the members of this particular lodge were licking their chops, anticipating the day he would be raised. Then, they proceeded to share "war" stories about them being raised.

In my time as a craftsman, i have never experienced anything close to hazing and have never put a candidate through anything close to hazing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caution1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 8:50pm
Itd be a good idea if this was discussed in a tyled setting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 11:14pm
Great idea - maybe the EA Tyled Forum


Edited by daves - February/20/2011 at 11:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cemab4y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 11:34am
I am proud of the fact, that my two lodges forbid hazing in any form. I have heard these stories as well. In 2006, in Germany, a young soldier petitioned a military lodge in Germany. He was told, that if he showed up at the lodge, intoxicated, that the lodge would go "easy" on him, and he would not be subject to hazing, paddling, etc. He drank half a bottle of scotch, and then died of alcohol poisoning. This needless tragedy, and the loss of a fine young soldier, is a stain on all of Masonry.
 
We should assure all petitioners, that hazing in any form is intolerable in Masonry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote losthermit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 11:50am
I do strongly recommend clean underwear--seriously.  Especially if there are a group of candidates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noblewiebe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 11:52am
Originally posted by daves daves wrote:

Great idea - maybe the EA Tyled Forum
I don't see a problem with the public knowing that we are against such vulgar actions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caution1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by Noblewiebe Noblewiebe wrote:

Originally posted by daves daves wrote:

Great idea - maybe the EA Tyled Forum

I don't see a problem with the public knowing that we are against such vulgar actions.


Of course, but several discussions may border on rituals and information during the rituals to which I really would like candidates to know first hand.

Furthermore, what is the challenge of going through the process without that candidates blind eye. Not knowing what challenge or what objective is in front of you. Things like that I can say publicly.

I guess if I should tell a candidate anything publicly, no, there will be no hazing. Its an educational process. Even afterwards the process of education continues

How do you get educated as a candidate will depend on who you are and your lodge
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flotown79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 2:22pm


There is no hazing in my GL.  There is no wiggle room.  I have seen Charters removed over this. 


Edited by Flotown79 - February/21/2011 at 2:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CanuckMason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

I
Some individuals may "joke" about things, making references to certain spoofs that you may have seen on TV or in some silly movies like "Animal House".
 
 
Yes, the joking irritates me more than a little bit, and when I hear it in front of a candidate, I move quickly to dispell it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caution1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 2:34pm
Bro Flo,
What's up with all the correspondence by the way?
And yeh, I did state no hazing I sho did did I.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flotown79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 2:36pm
I hit the quote button instead of the reply.  It has been corrected.  My apologies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote log cabin Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 3:03pm
No, absolutely no hazing in my experiences.  As a matter of fact, in our preparing room there is a framed poster with a handful of lines printed below that and it is titled "No Room For Levity."  We take initiation into Freemasonry very seriously.  I was a member of a committee of inquiry for a candidate who was a recent college grad and was a member of a fraternity while at college.  We had to assure hm that there was absolutely no hazing permitted and that we did not engage in that sort of activity as it was strictly forbidden and this is not was Masonry was about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tm274 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by Caution1010 Caution1010 wrote:

Originally posted by Noblewiebe Noblewiebe wrote:

Originally posted by daves daves wrote:

Great idea - maybe the EA Tyled Forum

I don't see a problem with the public knowing that we are against such vulgar actions.


Of course, but several discussions may border on rituals and information during the rituals to which I really would like candidates to know first hand.

Furthermore, what is the challenge of going through the process without that candidates blind eye. Not knowing what challenge or what objective is in front of you. Things like that I can say publicly.

I guess if I should tell a candidate anything publicly, no, there will be no hazing. Its an educational process. Even afterwards the process of education continues

How do you get educated as a candidate will depend on who you are and your lodge
Rest assured, that the Admins/Mods will be looking out for such "statements of Rituals" and I personally endorse the comments where we state they we are against vulgar actions of this type..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tugger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2011 at 12:15pm
Even though I can't access the tyled forums, I agree that the line of answering is starting to get close to the line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnarledrose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2011 at 1:57pm
There's no need to bring ritual or "secrets" into it-- it's obvious from these comments, and I'd like to add my own on behalf of Utah Freemasons, that we're against juvenile hazing methods and actions. Some members joke about "riding the goat" and such, but these rumors should be silenced  around the candidate to impress on their minds the seriousness of the experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maboot38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2011 at 2:48pm
And yet we all recall this incident:
 
 
So it is no wonder that rumors persist.
 
My guess is that there are probably less than 1% of lodges out there that have some sort of extra-Masonic tradition build into their lodge ritual that may be considered hazing. 
 
Still, while we can't say that there is a 100% guarantee that no lodges engage in this sort of behavior, it is important to note that it is NOT acceptable, and you should not participate in lodges that engage in such behavior...or better.....become WM and remove that tradition.
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Originally posted by maboot38 maboot38 wrote:

And yet we all recall this incident:
 
 
So it is no wonder that rumors persist.
 
My guess is that there are probably less than 1% of lodges out there that have some sort of extra-Masonic tradition build into their lodge ritual that may be considered hazing. 
 
Still, while we can't say that there is a 100% guarantee that no lodges engage in this sort of behavior, it is important to note that it is NOT acceptable, and you should not participate in lodges that engage in such behavior...or better.....become WM and remove that tradition.


Not to justify the action involved, but according to this it was not during a Degree Ritual, but in some kind of "Social Club".  Also, was this Lodge a member of a Legitimate Grand Lodge?

Masonic Lodge Is Suspended After Shooting

By PATRICK HEALY
Published: March 15, 2004

A week after a man was shot dead inside a Masonic lodge on Long Island, leaders of the state's Masonic organization made the rare move yesterday of suspending the lodge while a panel of lawyers investigates the culture and ritual that led to the shooting.

''We at the Grand Lodge were deeply outraged and anguished over this incident,'' said Carl Fitje, the grand master of the Grand Lodge of New York, which oversees the state's Masonic groups. ''This just came out of left field.''

William James, a new arrival to the lodge, South Side 493 Masons of Patchogue, was killed Monday as he was being initiated into a social club connected to the Masons but not officially part of the organization. A 76-year-old member of the social club, the Fellow Craft Club, was supposed to fire a gun loaded with blanks, but reached into the wrong pocket, drew a licensed, loaded gun and shot Mr. James, 47, in the face.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote masonic.truths Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2011 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by masonic.truths masonic.truths wrote:

Originally posted by maboot38 maboot38 wrote:

And yet we all recall this incident:
 
 
So it is no wonder that rumors persist.
 
My guess is that there are probably less than 1% of lodges out there that have some sort of extra-Masonic tradition build into their lodge ritual that may be considered hazing. 
 
Still, while we can't say that there is a 100% guarantee that no lodges engage in this sort of behavior, it is important to note that it is NOT acceptable, and you should not participate in lodges that engage in such behavior...or better.....become WM and remove that tradition.


Not to justify the action involved, but according to this it was not during a Degree Ritual, but in some kind of "Social Club".  Also, I know it says it was a member of the Grand Lodge of New York, is that correct?

Masonic Lodge Is Suspended After Shooting

By PATRICK HEALY
Published: March 15, 2004

A week after a man was shot dead inside a Masonic lodge on Long Island, leaders of the state's Masonic organization made the rare move yesterday of suspending the lodge while a panel of lawyers investigates the culture and ritual that led to the shooting.

''We at the Grand Lodge were deeply outraged and anguished over this incident,'' said Carl Fitje, the grand master of the Grand Lodge of New York, which oversees the state's Masonic groups. ''This just came out of left field.''

William James, a new arrival to the lodge, South Side 493 Masons of Patchogue, was killed Monday as he was being initiated into a social club connected to the Masons but not officially part of the organization. A 76-year-old member of the social club, the Fellow Craft Club, was supposed to fire a gun loaded with blanks, but reached into the wrong pocket, drew a licensed, loaded gun and shot Mr. James, 47, in the face.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maboot38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2011 at 3:12pm
No that's what I mean...it wasn't Masonic ritual, but rather some "side-ritual" adopted by members of the lodge.  However,....it is there and it is what it is.  There's no place for that in my opinion.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ga.mason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 5:46am
Just my 2 cents. I think the term "hazing" is being adopted and used as a blanket term just like the word racism. Intentionally hurting someone, humliating them, etc... for entertainment purposes is wrong. Degree work when done properly, is a very memorable experience that should not be tarnished by unlawful acts or tactics. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tm274 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 5:49am
Originally posted by ga.mason ga.mason wrote:

Just my 2 cents. I think the term "hazing" is being adopted and used as a blanket term just like the word racism. Intentionally hurting someone, humliating them, etc... for entertainment purposes is wrong. Degree work when done properly, is a very memorable experience that should not be tarnished by unlawful acts or tactics. 
I would have to disagree.
Hazing is a "one off"
.....but racism is a stigma that just doesn't go away. It's ALWAYS there.
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The stigma is there, but the proper term that should be used is "bigot" not racist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tm274 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 5:57am
Originally posted by ga.mason ga.mason wrote:

The stigma is there, but the proper term that should be used is "bigot" not racist.
.......................but different from "hazing"????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bigs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 6:05am
Originally posted by masonic.truths masonic.truths wrote:

Originally posted by maboot38 maboot38 wrote:

And yet we all recall this incident:
 
 
So it is no wonder that rumors persist.
 
My guess is that there are probably less than 1% of lodges out there that have some sort of extra-Masonic tradition build into their lodge ritual that may be considered hazing. 
 
Still, while we can't say that there is a 100% guarantee that no lodges engage in this sort of behavior, it is important to note that it is NOT acceptable, and you should not participate in lodges that engage in such behavior...or better.....become WM and remove that tradition.


Not to justify the action involved, but according to this it was not during a Degree Ritual, but in some kind of "Social Club".  Also, was this Lodge a member of a Legitimate Grand Lodge?

Masonic Lodge Is Suspended After Shooting

By PATRICK HEALY
Published: March 15, 2004

A week after a man was shot dead inside a Masonic lodge on Long Island, leaders of the state's Masonic organization made the rare move yesterday of suspending the lodge while a panel of lawyers investigates the culture and ritual that led to the shooting.

''We at the Grand Lodge were deeply outraged and anguished over this incident,'' said Carl Fitje, the grand master of the Grand Lodge of New York, which oversees the state's Masonic groups. ''This just came out of left field.''

William James, a new arrival to the lodge, South Side 493 Masons of Patchogue, was killed Monday as he was being initiated into a social club connected to the Masons but not officially part of the organization. A 76-year-old member of the social club, the Fellow Craft Club, was supposed to fire a gun loaded with blanks, but reached into the wrong pocket, drew a licensed, loaded gun and shot Mr. James, 47, in the face.


The Grand Lodge of N.Y is definitely legitimate which is what this lodge belonged too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caution1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 11:56am
GA Mason, Define bigotry.

TM274, No worries, I'd be nice.


Edited by Caution1010 - February/23/2011 at 11:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LilJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 1:18pm
No hazing in my experience either.
I would be willing to bet they were joking. When I was initiated into the Elks Lodge for example I was told I would "ride the goat"  Of course that was just a joke.


Edited by LilJack - February/23/2011 at 1:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 4:37pm
The Tyler spent time putting my mind at ease. There was no hazing but plenty of respect for me at my initiation. I wouldn't have gone back if my role had been to be the butt of somebody else's joke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ga.mason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 6:06am
Originally posted by Caution1010 Caution1010 wrote:

GA Mason, Define bigotry.

TM274, No worries, I'd be nice.
 
 
In its simplest terms, bigotry is the dislike of someone based solely on skin, color, politics, religion,etc... Racism is the belief that ones race is genetically superior than anothers. Hitler would be an example of a racist. Someone who wants to make skin color an issue is a bigot. The term racism was adopted long ago as the politically correct term because it sounded better on the six o'clock news soundbytes. If the proper term bigot was used, people would have to accept the fact that hatred is more confined to individual persons than to a race as a whole. i may or may not like certain blacks, asians, mexicans,or WHITES, but that in no way would make me a racist. A bigot perhaps, but only if you insist on labeling a person. hope this helps!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caution1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 11:35am
ok
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maboot38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 11:41am
OK so in that case it sounds like the more appropriate terminology would be "racist bigotry".
 
Moving on......we were talking about hazing, and I think I see the point.  Hazing is really a loose term legally.  I see it as making someone do something in order to gain acceptance that doesn't really impart a true lesson, often at the displeasure or discomfort of the initiate.
 
Shriners usually "haze" a small handful of men during initiation classes, but I believe these men actually volunteer....so is it hazing, or just a public display of silliness?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tar Heel 357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 1:21pm
Hazing has no place in Masonry.  Why would a Mason abuse one they want to be amongst them?  The Shrine is a bit different, and tends to push the limit; but, even their rules have become more stringent against hazing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aogop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 2:24pm
Regarding the Shrine, we were told up front we were going to be messed with.  Any of us who did not want to could do just a "Cold Sands" ceremony that was essentially just paperwork and the obligation.  I wanted the full meal deal, so I travelled the Hot Sands, but it is not forced on anyone anymore...at least not up here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maboot38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by aogop aogop wrote:

Regarding the Shrine, we were told up front we were going to be messed with.  Any of us who did not want to could do just a "Cold Sands" ceremony that was essentially just paperwork and the obligation.  I wanted the full meal deal, so I travelled the Hot Sands, but it is not forced on anyone anymore...at least not up here.
 
And it is FUN anyway.  Anyone who doesn't get that won't get the Shrine!  :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluminado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 6:53pm
That unfortunate incident was in a lodge building whose charter was under the GLNY and yes, it was a fellowcraft club and not a part of the craft lodge however please note that the lodge's charter is absolutely GONE.

Originally posted by masonic.truths masonic.truths wrote:

Originally posted by masonic.truths masonic.truths wrote:

Originally posted by maboot38 maboot38 wrote:

And yet we all recall this incident:
 
So it is no wonder that rumors persist.
 
My guess is that there are probably less than 1% of lodges out there that have some sort of extra-Masonic tradition build into their lodge ritual that may be considered hazing. 
 
Still, while we can't say that there is a 100% guarantee that no lodges engage in this sort of behavior, it is important to note that it is NOT acceptable, and you should not participate in lodges that engage in such behavior...or better.....become WM and remove that tradition.


Not to justify the action involved, but according to this it was not during a Degree Ritual, but in some kind of "Social Club".  Also, I know it says it was a member of the Grand Lodge of New York, is that correct?



Edited by iluminado - February/24/2011 at 6:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmerjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 10:28pm
I will say that here, any sort of attempt to haze, arm, or otherwise humiliate a person, would result in severe action, including any sort of side degrees.  Recently there was an issue with a group called, I think the snakes, that had some hazing.  GL sent out a message, and included a form that every officer had to sign, denouncing the group, or face expulsion from the Lodge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dumcheesemonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 4:19pm
in my experiences from ea and now in fc, some guys joke about that kinda stuff (the goats and all that). I knew they were joking and what they were trying to do was relax me and the others ive seen it happen to because everyones at least a little nervous about it. so it ddnt bother me nor did it bother the other few guys ive seen hear the same things about the goats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caution1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2011 at 12:59pm
Oh but the goat is real dumcheesemonkey...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YoungBlood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 1:20am
I have to say that dumcheesemonkey is quite possibly the best username on this forum.

-In other news-
While it may bother some, I don't think the joking of "riding the goat" is hazing.
I was initiated as a member of another fraternity before coming to masonry, so I knew it was all just a "mind game"
Just my opinion, of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Groupie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 8:05am
I have heard it said that there have been some instances of hazing in some of the military lodges !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edwmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 9:03am
Originally posted by YoungBlood YoungBlood wrote:

I have to say that dumcheesemonkey is quite possibly the best username on this forum.

-In other news-
While it may bother some, I don't think the joking of "riding the goat" is hazing.
I was initiated as a member of another fraternity before coming to masonry, so I knew it was all just a "mind game"
Just my opinion, of course.


While 'riding the goat' is now a mind game; but was it it in the early days of Masonry?   ... Have you (or anyone) researched the significance of the 'goat"   .... or is it ... "GAOTU"  (pronounced goat).   If the significance is understood, then it is not a mind game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote masonic.truths Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 9:51am
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

While 'riding the goat' is now a mind game; but was it it in the early days of Masonry?   ... Have you (or anyone) researched the significance of the 'goat"   .... or is it ... "GAOTU"  (pronounced goat).   If the significance is understood, then it is not a mind game.


Some may find this of interest:  uploads/4115/The_Symbolism_of_the_Goat.pdf.  I personally believe that it is just a joke some use to tease candidates.  But, I can say with certainty from my experience, that if the roots are truly symbolic, the symbolism  is unknown to most that use it to tease candidates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dumcheesemonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 2:17pm
from what ive read.the riding of the goat came from the witches back in the time of the Salem trials. Where a witch would ride into town on a goat, and it showed what she was, but has since been turned into a joke. (oh and thanks youngblood)


Edited by dumcheesemonkey - March/26/2011 at 2:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3DistinctKnocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2011 at 3:31pm
Looking back to some of the charges brought against the Templar Knights, worshiping the baphomet, or a goat's head, was one of the biggies.  Of course, there is a touch of evidence that shows that the baphomet was simply a symbol of wisdom, but who knows.  I'm not one that subscribes to the thought that Freemasonry has it's roots in the Poor Knights of Christ or that the Templars "infiltrated" operative masons lodges after the trials, but it is interesting to think about...
Just a thought for what its worth.
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