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Grammar and Rhetoric

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Topic: Grammar and Rhetoric
Posted By: Palmetto Bug
Subject: Grammar and Rhetoric
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 8:57am
We break from regular programing for the following announcement.
 
Masons should be familiar with the title of this topic. Those that are - or claim to be - Masons and are members of these Mastermason.com forums are invited to reflect on the following.
 
The administrators and moderators have noticed an increase lately in the amount of poorly typed posts. Though it is fully understood that typos plague us all and not everyone is equally grounded in the use of the written word, it is respectfully requested that an honest attempt be made to produce quality posts. Grammar, capitalization, spelling, and punctuation all play parts in this. Making mistakes in any of these areas can easily lead to difficulty for the reader and a likelihood that what you typed may be misinterpreted. The style of typing commonly known as "texting" is especially difficult on many readers and should be avoided. Slang, though sometimes useful, should also be carefully considered before being used.
 
It all boils down to courtesy and pride. Be courteous to your readers by typing properly written pieces - to the best of your ability - that are more easily understood and less likely to be misinterpreted. Have pride in your written word. Since we are unable to sit down face to face and have a conversation, all of us are forced to judge each other based largely on the words and sentences typed into these forums.
 
Please have a nice day and we will now return to regular programming - already in progress.


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Homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto.

http://palmettomason.blogspot.com/



Replies:
Posted By: De Darrah
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 11:35am
  http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNman000">Clapping%20Hands  Well spoken. 





http://www.smileycentral.com/dl/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb113_ZNman000&utm_id=7921">

-------------
De
Past Matron New Hope Ch. #117 OES
PWHP Palm Shrine No.32 now Alchor #27 WSOJ
Y.B.Y.S.A.I.A.

As Brother Ben F. said
"In Wine there is Wisdom
In Beer there is Freedom
In Water there is Bacteria"
<


Posted By: djaeon
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 12:58pm
Thank you for that! I hope it helps Smile

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John D. Spreckles Lodge #657 F.&A.M.
Entered - 10/19/09; Passed - 2/8/10; Raised - 4/26/10
Al Bhar Shrine - 5/22/10


Posted By: Lighthouse
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 1:44pm

The written word is still the primary means of communication via the internet. Proper spelling, grammar, and sentence structure are key to effective communication. As P-Bug stated, we all make mistakes and that is forgivable. To willingly persist in poor communication will get yourself ignored in a hurry.



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-Brent

Naval Lodge No. 87 (Vallejo, CA): Secretary & Trestle Board Editor


Posted By: capquest
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 2:27pm
Well put!  As a secretary I have to read the unreadable and unscru the inscrutable.

The FIRST of the seven liberal arts is Grammar for a reason.

The first thing the GAOTU told Adam to do was to name everything.

GAOTU doesn't need Grammar but we humans do!

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Capt. D
Secretary
Ashlar 98
F & AM Florida


Posted By: daves
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 5:47pm
Thank you administrators! These new phonetic abbreviations, eg m8 for mate, may save time for the sender, but not for recipients like me who have to sit there and translate. Sometimes I just give up, and the message hasn't got through which, I'm sure, wasn't the intent of the sender.

Remember, the responsibility for ensuring that a message gets through to the mind of the recipient sits entirely with the sender.

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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20)
18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5)
http://thecarringtonlodge.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - The Carrington Lodge





Posted By: tm274
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 5:56pm
Ripper, mate.Thumbs%20Up

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Initiated : 23rd April 2002
Passed   : 25th June 2002
Raised    : 24th Sept 2002

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
32° Farenheit is certainly not higher than 3° Cel.


Posted By: Palmetto Bug
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by tm274 tm274 wrote:

Ripper, mate.Thumbs%20Up
 
Mercy - now we are going to have to discuss Aussie slang. Wink


-------------
Homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto.

http://palmettomason.blogspot.com/


Posted By: tm274
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by Palmetto Bug Palmetto Bug wrote:

Originally posted by tm274 tm274 wrote:

Ripper, mate.Thumbs%20Up
 
Mercy - now we are going to have to discuss Aussie slang. Wink
Yep.
I could go on and give a long winded  post, which would mean the same thing, but I haven't had my coffee yet.
You'll notice I did give it the "thumbs up".......which is a lot of effort.Thumbs%20Up
.
 
 
 
 
 
...........now to get my coffee.!


-------------
Initiated : 23rd April 2002
Passed   : 25th June 2002
Raised    : 24th Sept 2002

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
32° Farenheit is certainly not higher than 3° Cel.


Posted By: squarehead
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 6:09pm
Fa' sho Brother PM-Bug! (just kidding). I will be certain to do my part. Good post by the way.

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MWPHGLTX F A&M
NEW LIGHT LODGE#242
MT. SINAI CHAPTER #42
SOUTH CENTRAL COMMANDERY #37
NUBIA TEMPLE #191 (AEAONMS)
Y.B.Y.S.A.I.A





"Seek first to understand, Then to be understood."  &nbs


Posted By: khead27
Date Posted: October/16/2009 at 6:09pm
Well put.  Now, if I could get my kids to give up text talk!

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Square Work Lodge #596
MWPHGLGA


Posted By: Bob Ash
Date Posted: November/16/2009 at 7:53am
I even make my kids text me in full, punctuated sentences.


Posted By: daves
Date Posted: November/16/2009 at 4:54pm
Good on you, Brother Bob.

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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20)
18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5)
http://thecarringtonlodge.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - The Carrington Lodge





Posted By: nhamel
Date Posted: December/27/2009 at 6:17am
Hello im sorry that my posts may be poorly typed. i have Dyslexia and its a lot of work for me.
i will try to use microsoft works or something like that before typeing on the forums so im sorry if some of my past forums was poorly typed


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AE. 1/09
FC. 2/09
MM.3/09
Morning Sun # 5 http://www.vtfreemasons.org/lodges/bridport.asp




Posted By: daves
Date Posted: December/27/2009 at 7:00am
I use Microsoft's free Wordpad program for preparing the longer posts - I've found it very useful. In the meantime Bro Nhamel, good on you for keeping on trying.

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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20)
18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5)
http://thecarringtonlodge.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - The Carrington Lodge





Posted By: Shoe
Date Posted: January/07/2010 at 11:36am
Has anyone else noticed that the more texting and emailing there is the worse the handwriting has gotten, especially in the younger generations.

I don't know maybe it's just me. haha

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Jim
MM from ohio.
Jr. Stwt. Niles Mckinley Lodge #794
The Journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.


Posted By: Tensolator
Date Posted: January/07/2010 at 12:56pm
I like this topic.

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Hypochondriacs are their own terrorists...-Saul Bellow


Posted By: daves
Date Posted: January/10/2010 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by Shoe Shoe wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that the more texting and emailing there is the worse the handwriting has gotten, especially in the younger generations.

I don't know maybe it's just me. haha


My handwriting has always been awful and I was always in trouble for it when I was at school. My excuse was that it had "character".


-------------
The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20)
18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5)
http://thecarringtonlodge.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - The Carrington Lodge





Posted By: khead27
Date Posted: January/10/2010 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by Shoe Shoe wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that the more texting and emailing there is the worse the handwriting has gotten, especially in the younger generations.

I don't know maybe it's just me. haha
I've noticed it, too.  I blame it on a lack of emphasis in schools, and society's tendency to rush and abbreviate everything.

-------------
Square Work Lodge #596
MWPHGLGA


Posted By: jimzdat
Date Posted: January/10/2010 at 7:41pm
One of the automotive forums I am a member of has had a similar problem. As such, they have implemented a number of rules for the forum, that all members are REQUIRED to accept before they can post. I have copied these rules below - keep in mind some of the rules are auto-related, but some of these may be applied to just about any forum.
 
Might be worth amending the mastermason.com forum "rules of etiquette"
 
General Rules
HybridZ Forum Rules - READ NOW BEFORE POSTING!

1. The purpose of this site is to discuss TECHNICAL topics that pertain to the modification of the Datsun/Nissan Z cars (240Z, 260Z, 280Z, 300ZX, 350Z). No thoughtful modification that enhances performance or styling will be put down. The philosophy is one of "parts is parts" - it doesn't matter what automaker originally made the parts, if you think that using those parts on your Z will add to it's performance or cosmetic appeal. But the emphasis is on FUNCTION, not the addition of graphics, wings, etc. to only make the Z LOOK like it is a high performance car. However, everyone has their own ideas of what stylish modifications look good or bad.

2. Please use the search function before you do anything else. The search button can be found at the top of the page. Use several keywords if you don't find what you need right off the bat. Remember: Just about every possible topic and problem has been posted and answered, in most cases several times. The Members on this board are very helpful and a great crowd of Z enthusiasts, but answering the same questions over and over again gets old.

3. Please make a good effort to post a topic "subject" title that is pertinent and descriptive of the subject that you want to convey. When you post a thread with a title like “I need help” this makes it harder for the next guy to find what he is looking for when they try to search the database. It is impossible to know what that thread is about so it must either be skipped over or opened to check the content. The title of your post is not the place to be VAGUE!!!

4. There is no Best! No best tires. No best engine. No best shock. No best big chrome foot gas pedal. Every car builder and driver is in a different situation. What's good for one might suck for another. The decision on what is "best" for you and your car is completely up to you. As with any decision time, effort, and research is needed by the decision maker - you! Instead of asking what is "best", do some research, explain your situation in excruciating detail, and describe what alternatives you're considering in your decision. Posting a thread with "What's the best..." in the title it is a sure way to get that post tossed into the Tool Shed.

5. This site is based in the USA, and as such, text is to be written in English. There are web sites available on the web that can translate text from many recognized official languages to English, if you don't know it. (But then how could you read this? ) Gangster-slang, or any other cute, obtuse, street-talk dialects are not tolerated. Write in clear English that does not require a current knowledge of the latest street-slang. Text message or IM shorthand does not qualify as English. Always try to use proper punctuation, spelling AND capitalization.

6. If you have any real information to add to a post, or another related question about the same topic, please post. Please be sure to read the ENTIRE thread before you post so that you will understand the topic and direction the thread is heading. Otherwise, don't post if you are just guessing, or just wanting to interject an unsolicited opinion and/or sounding like you have the definitive answer. Most folks like to get solid advice, and opinions on what ‘may’ be the correct direction are usually not helpful or wanted. Sometimes opinions will be requested, but these posts are easily recognized. This includes non constructive posts in an effort to increase your post count!

7. Remember, this is a Hybrid site. Do not ever get on the purist Datsun/Nissan soapbox or promote Datsun/Nissan only swaps. The Admins/moderators will not tolerate this. The mere mention of keeping your Z "all Datsun" will be frowned upon. Several other sites exist for this mindset.

8. While we are on the subject, we want you to stay off of your religious or political soapboxes as well. Religious or political topics should be avoided. Any posts that stray into the realm of politics and religion will be closed and/or deleted. This is a car website, so let’s keep it focused on cars.

9. Please post questions, comments, etc under the correct forum topic heading, and only post in one forum. For example, if you have a Chevy V8Z and have a question/comment on suspension setup, or drive train setup, etc, don't post it in the Chevy V8 section. Also, read the guidelines in the For Sale section.

10. Links to ebay auctions will be permitted in the Non-Tech forum only. This is not technical information, so it should not be posted in a technical forum. All other selling should be done through the classified forum, see rules that apply to the classifieds below.

11. If you are planning a V8 swap into a Z (esp. SBC), please order the swap manual from http://www.jagsthatrun.com/ - http://www.jagsthatrun.com/ . Although this manual is specific to the early Z, it would be helpful to any swap.

12. Don't make personal attacks if someone disagrees with you, and don't take advice given personally. Typed text has no intonation, or expression and the members on this board sometimes come off as being rude, or impolite. Generally this is not the case, so please be a little thick skinned when advice is given that you may not agree with.

13. Admins have been tasked with correcting mistakes and telling people to stop unwanted behavior. This can offend some people who do not take correction well. Do not make personal attacks on the administrators. Feel free to disagree with the admin staff on technical issues regarding the Z, but when the attacks become personal the immediate and permanent response will be banning the user.

14. If you frequently log in just read what's going on in HybridZ land, you may find the function "view posts since last visit" is generally the best bet. It will save you time instead of opening each forum individually.

15. Keep signature pics below 500 pixels wide and 100 tall please!

16. If you are still unsure as to the functions of the site, feel free to Private Message "PM" a moderator or Admin. You will find a link to send a Private message by finding one of their posts and clicking on their name.


Enjoy your time on HybridZ.org. To many of us it's like a second home, and we try to keep it "tidy". Just think of you behavior on this site as if you were visiting someone else’s house.....good manners are always appreciated.





Posted By: cemab4y
Date Posted: March/17/2010 at 2:38pm

Interesting topic. I saw a report on TV, stating that handwriting, especially cursive/script will disappear in a generation. Myself, I cherish the written word, notwithstanding the fact, that my one handwriting is atrocious (my wife calls my handwriting "feet-writing").

I have no problem with text shorthand, in moderation.  (I'm L8 for a meeting. C U 2morrow), in a text message. I am appalled to see this communication creeping into emails and memoranda.

Languages are one of my hobbies. (I speak Russian at home with my wife). English is one of the most difficult languages, to spell. In written documents, prior to the late 18th century, you would often see the same word spelled differently, on the same page! Noah Webster, was one of the first to push for standardized spelling of English. Sadly, young people today are losing the ability to spell English words properly.

 



-------------
Charles E. Martin

Alexandria, VA

Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM)

Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA)


Posted By: YoungBlood
Date Posted: March/17/2010 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

Interesting topic. I saw a report on TV, stating that handwriting, especially cursive/script will disappear in a generation.

Languages are one of my hobbies. (I speak Russian at home with my wife).

Cursive writing was one of those things that we were taught in fourth or fifth grade and then never used it again, unless signing our names. If they didn't stress writing in cursive after that, then I never understood why it was even taught in the first place.

And I'm fairly jealous about your ability to speak Russian. I've always wanted to learn it, but it has never been offered as a class [high school or university]



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I - Oct 17, 2009

P - Jan 16, 2010

R - March 6, 2010

Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret - Nov 13, 2010

Sir Knight - Feb 26, 201


Posted By: cemab4y
Date Posted: March/17/2010 at 5:44pm
The Air Force taught me Russian. I later married a Russian. I am not fluent, but I can get by. One benefit of having a Russian wife, is that she can give me a cussing in her language, I don't understand all the words. She feels better, and I am not offended!
 
If you wish to learn Russian, Try Rosetta Stone. I belong to a Russian Study group, I connected with on Meetup.com . When I am home, we meet at a coffee shop, and practice Russian. I also converse with Russians on ham radio sometimes.


-------------
Charles E. Martin

Alexandria, VA

Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM)

Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA)


Posted By: YoungBlood
Date Posted: March/17/2010 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

The Air Force taught me Russian. I later married a Russian. I am not fluent, but I can get by. One benefit of having a Russian wife, is that she can give me a cussing in her language, I don't understand all the words. She feels better, and I am not offended!
 
If you wish to learn Russian, Try Rosetta Stone. I belong to a Russian Study group, I connected with on Meetup.com . When I am home, we meet at a coffee shop, and practice Russian. I also converse with Russians on ham radio sometimes.


Hey, sometimes that's all it takes. Enough to get by to save your life - literally.

What would I be looking at cost wise? And is it very effective? I'm what you could call "stubborn" with foreign languages, my mother always said I was thick headed...


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I - Oct 17, 2009

P - Jan 16, 2010

R - March 6, 2010

Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret - Nov 13, 2010

Sir Knight - Feb 26, 201


Posted By: daves
Date Posted: March/17/2010 at 9:44pm
I was taught French and German at school. What is amazing is how the language comes back to you after years and years when you are put in the situation of having to speak it. I had to work for a short while near Dusseldorf in NW Germany. My colleagues all laughed at my German because they said I sounded like a very formal Berliner. I got the last laugh - we had to go to Graz in Austria to meet with some other German speakers. The Dusseldorfers and the Austrians couldn't understand each other because their dialects were so strong. But I could understand both sides and finished up trying to translate. In the end we settled on English.

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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20)
18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5)
http://thecarringtonlodge.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - The Carrington Lodge





Posted By: cemab4y
Date Posted: March/18/2010 at 7:09am

Check out http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-russian - http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-russian   .  I have never used their program, but they have a good reputation.  You should also look on meetup and see if there is a Russian study group or club in your town.



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Charles E. Martin

Alexandria, VA

Bowling Green Lodge 73, Bowling Green KY (GL of KY, F&AM)

Alexandria VA Scottish Rite Bodies (AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, USA)


Posted By: YoungBlood
Date Posted: March/18/2010 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by cemab4y cemab4y wrote:

Check out http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-russian - http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-russian   .  I have never used their program, but they have a good reputation.  You should also look on meetup and see if there is a Russian study group or club in your town.



As they say in German, "danke."


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I - Oct 17, 2009

P - Jan 16, 2010

R - March 6, 2010

Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret - Nov 13, 2010

Sir Knight - Feb 26, 201


Posted By: MasterHangman33
Date Posted: March/21/2010 at 6:00pm
Agreed. Once, my nephew sent me a text in what looked like ebonics. I had to sit down and talk with Him, lol. I tend to capitalize certain words that mean more to me individually, like Family and Brother, You and Ours, which tends to rub some People the wrong way. I do not mean anything by it, it is just a habit. I am very altruistic in context to others.

i have been aspiring to speak with brevity, condensing sentences down to maximize benefit of resonance in shared communication, kind of like an everything said in 5 or less words kind of thing.        

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Worshipful Master
Trenton/Wyandotte #8
PHP Trenton Chapter #173
Union Council #11
Valley of Detroit A.A.S.R



Posted By: bmr33775
Date Posted: May/04/2010 at 10:28pm

Well put.  You know shows me yet another reason I love the Craft.  On the outside, someone may have been offended by this, but when you put a bunch of brothers together and one of us is trying to keep things square, everyone agrees.  And I agree, it may take a little longer to type it out, however, most of these posts are accessed by google and there are already millions out there that HATE Mason's for no reason at all, why give them something else to look down on.



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BRO. Burnell Reliford
ST. John Lodge #35
Rota, Spain


Posted By: Stuntman98
Date Posted: May/18/2010 at 12:58pm

Sometimes i will spell in a manner that is readable to a TRUE MM, will that not fly?



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S.S. Sons of Light No.77
P.M. Pride of The Walton No.110
MWPHGL Washington
District No.9

SPAIN MILITARY CONSISTORY #99 AASR,PHA


Posted By: maboot38
Date Posted: August/16/2010 at 11:30am
I'm a moderator on another Masonic site and I recently had someone post on the forum in a block of text that had absolutley no punctuation, and the first letter of every word was capitalized.
 
I had no choice but to call him out on it, as he said he believed himself to be a wise man and also cited Mark Twain as one of his most admired authors.  We pulled out the grammar and rhetoric argument and I asked him if the thought Samuel Clemens would be entertained by his writing style.
 
His format changed immediately.


-------------
Dan
Columbian Lodge - Boston, MA
http://www.facebook.com/ColumbianLodge1795" rel="nofollow - Columbian Lodge Facebook Page
www.columbianlodge.org


Posted By: Tar Heel 357
Date Posted: November/15/2010 at 1:54pm
Thanks for the reminder Palmetto Bug.  All of us need to be reminded of writing properly from time to time.  This is true in life, not just Freemasonry. 

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Silver Square Lodge #791, MWPHGLNC

Edwards Evans Consistory #196, PHA

Kindah Temple #62, AEAONMS

Cumberland Chapter #70, HRAM

Bayard-Titus-Johnson Council #2, R&SM

Pilgrim Rest Commandery #11


Posted By: sapperguy
Date Posted: November/22/2010 at 6:54am

First, I must apologize in advance as I am a member of a motorcycle forum where we use slang and text type writing in our posts. I will do the best I can in responding to keep that out of here. Here's what really disturbs me. I am a Staff Sergeant in the Army and am a platoon sergeant. I have both squad and team leaders who work for me that are all graduates of high school and some even college, who can't write the simplest things in a formal manner. Something as simple as a monthly review of a Soldier, is spelled incorrectly, grammatically incorrect, and almost impossible to read and/or follow. What is going on with our education system today? I think it's pretty bad when I, a product of the Kentucky education system, have to correct almost all of the writing that the leaders in my unit produce. In my eyes, that is pretty rediculous and dissapoints me greatly. I admit I am not the best writer in the world, but I do take pride in what I do and try to work with them to improve their writing skills, but I figure if a stupid redneck can do it, why can't they?



Posted By: coach
Date Posted: November/22/2010 at 7:02am
Originally posted by sapperguy sapperguy wrote:

First, I must apologize in advance as I am a member of a motorcycle forum where we use slang and text type writing in our posts. I will do the best I can in responding to keep that out of here. Here's what really disturbs me. I am a Staff Sergeant in the Army and am a platoon sergeant. I have both squad and team leaders who work for me that are all graduates of high school and some even college, who can't write the simplest things in a formal manner. Something as simple as a monthly review of a Soldier, is spelled incorrectly, grammatically incorrect, and almost impossible to read and/or follow. What is going on with our education system today?
The same thing that is going on with far to many Lodges.  All that is required it showing up and doing the bare minimum to warrant progression.
 
These types of rules and their enforcement give us exactly what we have.  Instead of plenty and abundance, we have scarcity and are left wanting.
Originally posted by sapperguy sapperguy wrote:

I think it's pretty bad when I, a product of the Kentucky education system, have to correct almost all of the writing that the leaders in my unit produce. In my eyes, that is pretty rediculous and dissapoints me greatly. I admit I am not the best writer in the world, but I do take pride in what I do and try to work with them to improve their writing skills, but I figure if a stupid redneck can do it, why can't they?
Because they currently have nothing stopping them due to their lacking. 


-------------
Building Builders - Masonic Education!

http://www.coach.net/BuildingBuilders.htm" rel="nofollow - Books I Wrote | http://www.facebook.com/johns.nagy" rel="nofollow - My FB Wall


Posted By: Stuntman98
Date Posted: November/22/2010 at 9:42am
AR 25-50

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S.S. Sons of Light No.77
P.M. Pride of The Walton No.110
MWPHGL Washington
District No.9

SPAIN MILITARY CONSISTORY #99 AASR,PHA


Posted By: coach
Date Posted: November/22/2010 at 11:01am
Originally posted by Stuntman98 Stuntman98 wrote:

AR 25-50
All right... I'll bite. 
 
What's AR 25-50?


-------------
Building Builders - Masonic Education!

http://www.coach.net/BuildingBuilders.htm" rel="nofollow - Books I Wrote | http://www.facebook.com/johns.nagy" rel="nofollow - My FB Wall


Posted By: Tar Heel 357
Date Posted: November/22/2010 at 11:25am
I believe it is the Army regulation that governs writing style, the preparation of various military documents, i.e., letters, memoranda, decision documents, etc. 

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Silver Square Lodge #791, MWPHGLNC

Edwards Evans Consistory #196, PHA

Kindah Temple #62, AEAONMS

Cumberland Chapter #70, HRAM

Bayard-Titus-Johnson Council #2, R&SM

Pilgrim Rest Commandery #11


Posted By: Stuntman98
Date Posted: November/22/2010 at 11:32am
correct, it mirrors the APA (American Psychological Association) a bit so i believe its a good tool to used when writing anything that can be viewed by the public if it is supposed to present a positive view.

-------------
S.S. Sons of Light No.77
P.M. Pride of The Walton No.110
MWPHGL Washington
District No.9

SPAIN MILITARY CONSISTORY #99 AASR,PHA


Posted By: coach
Date Posted: November/22/2010 at 2:33pm
http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r25_50.pdf - http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r25_50.pdf
 
It's not a quick read!


-------------
Building Builders - Masonic Education!

http://www.coach.net/BuildingBuilders.htm" rel="nofollow - Books I Wrote | http://www.facebook.com/johns.nagy" rel="nofollow - My FB Wall


Posted By: GaryE
Date Posted: December/18/2010 at 8:03am
Hardly. But then, just about any document put out by the government is neither a quick or easy read.


Posted By: Tar Heel 357
Date Posted: December/18/2010 at 9:29am
AR 25-50 is not meant to be a quick read.  It's purpose is to be a reference guide for the preparation of various Army correspondence and documents.  But, one can certainly read it in its entirety if you want to do so.

-------------
Silver Square Lodge #791, MWPHGLNC

Edwards Evans Consistory #196, PHA

Kindah Temple #62, AEAONMS

Cumberland Chapter #70, HRAM

Bayard-Titus-Johnson Council #2, R&SM

Pilgrim Rest Commandery #11


Posted By: triplej220
Date Posted: January/26/2011 at 1:02pm
Its definitely a good tool when you have to write business letters and memo's for your College English Class while deployed.....I was able to keep the books back at home in the states last deployment because of it.

-------------
GEORGE W.PRIOLEAU #13 MWPHGLAZ

Initiated - 25 May 2001

Passed - 22 June 2001

Raised - 20 July 2001



Y.B.Y.S.A.I.A.


Posted By: triplej220
Date Posted: February/17/2011 at 1:51am
Apparently LeinY didn't read the posts regarding using proper grammar let alone the forum guidelines.....

-------------
GEORGE W.PRIOLEAU #13 MWPHGLAZ

Initiated - 25 May 2001

Passed - 22 June 2001

Raised - 20 July 2001



Y.B.Y.S.A.I.A.


Posted By: masonic.truths
Date Posted: March/23/2011 at 9:18am
Originally posted by Palmetto Bug Palmetto Bug wrote:

We break from regular programing for the following announcement.
 
Masons should be familiar with the title of this topic. Those that are - or claim to be - Masons and are members of these Mastermason.com forums are invited to reflect on the following.
 
The administrators and moderators have noticed an increase lately in the amount of poorly typed posts. Though it is fully understood that typos plague us all and not everyone is equally grounded in the use of the written word, it is respectfully requested that an honest attempt be made to produce quality posts. Grammar, capitalization, spelling, and punctuation all play parts in this. Making mistakes in any of these areas can easily lead to difficulty for the reader and a likelihood that what you typed may be misinterpreted. The style of typing commonly known as "texting" is especially difficult on many readers and should be avoided. Slang, though sometimes useful, should also be carefully considered before being used.
 
It all boils down to courtesy and pride. Be courteous to your readers by typing properly written pieces - to the best of your ability - that are more easily understood and less likely to be misinterpreted. Have pride in your written word. Since we are unable to sit down face to face and have a conversation, all of us are forced to judge each other based largely on the words and sentences typed into these forums.
 
Please have a nice day and we will now return to regular programming - already in progress.


I believe that this should be emphasized again. 


Posted By: maboot38
Date Posted: March/23/2011 at 9:25am
Absolutely!!!
 
I think every Mason should remember the following phrase whether in public or posting on an internet site....
 
"YOU are SOMEBODY'S impression of Freemasonry"


-------------
Dan
Columbian Lodge - Boston, MA
http://www.facebook.com/ColumbianLodge1795" rel="nofollow - Columbian Lodge Facebook Page
www.columbianlodge.org


Posted By: tm274
Date Posted: March/23/2011 at 6:33pm
I've noticed a great improvement in the "diction" used by members, of late and haven't really seen anything that warrants a re-issue.


-------------
Initiated : 23rd April 2002
Passed   : 25th June 2002
Raised    : 24th Sept 2002

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
32° Farenheit is certainly not higher than 3° Cel.


Posted By: masonic.truths
Date Posted: March/23/2011 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by tm274 tm274 wrote:

I've noticed a great improvement in the "diction" used by members, of late and haven't really seen anything that warrants a re-issue.


Most members are careful, but  there are still a few offenders that use texting style, slang, and excessive abbreviations.




Posted By: drew
Date Posted: April/16/2011 at 6:27am
I must say that I am pleased that this board had these guidelines. 

Text style lingo is alright on some message boards; but not needed here.

Spelling, I think, is very important in all prose. Nothing is worse than seeing a grown man who does not know when to use the words there/their appropriately; or does not know how to use the word you're at all. Nothing is worse though, than people who spell no when they want to say know
 
Thank you for keeping this board up to intelligent standards.  


-------------
...when the guns are the fenceposts; the cars are the doghouse; and the telephone no longer rings.


Posted By: EJW
Date Posted: April/16/2011 at 5:28pm
I apologise if I do this in any of my posts in advance. I've become rather used to adding in 'text' language into my lecture note taking and sometimes it slips over into my forum posts.  

-------------
Lodge Tongariro No.705 (EC)


Posted By: ClanLabCooker
Date Posted: April/17/2011 at 9:46pm
Several have commented on the poor, and continually decreasing, ability of recent high school graduates to communicate effectively, especially using the written language.  In the long run we only have ourselves to blame.  We have embraced modern, forward looking programs such as No Child Left Behind, mainstreaming, and a host of others.  This has been at the expense of "old, worn out, antiquated" programs that effectively taught the fundamentals of phonetics, grammer and basic effective communication skills.
 
I am NOT opposed to modern techniques and technology, when it is an improvement!  However, change for the sake of change all too often is a step in the wrong direction.
 
Sorry, I will step off my soapbox now.  I realize I have quite probably offended a number of readers, and for that, I apologize.  However, I will not apologize for my opinion, it is my own.  You do not have to agree with me.  As Brothers, we should be able to voice our own opinions, and listen with respect to those agreeing, and disagreeing, with us.


Posted By: Tar Heel 357
Date Posted: May/12/2011 at 1:47pm
I believe the reason for the marked decrease in the written communication skills of our high school graduates is email, internet chatting, and blog sites.  One could also add that many businesses frequently use power point slides which use a bulletized format.   Yes, you are correct, I am writing this message onto an online forum.

-------------
Silver Square Lodge #791, MWPHGLNC

Edwards Evans Consistory #196, PHA

Kindah Temple #62, AEAONMS

Cumberland Chapter #70, HRAM

Bayard-Titus-Johnson Council #2, R&SM

Pilgrim Rest Commandery #11


Posted By: maboot38
Date Posted: May/12/2011 at 1:49pm

That doesn't excuse it.  I believe I write just fine no matter the media type.  As a result, I'm almost always clearly understood.  If I'm not, it isn't because of my spelling and grammar.



-------------
Dan
Columbian Lodge - Boston, MA
http://www.facebook.com/ColumbianLodge1795" rel="nofollow - Columbian Lodge Facebook Page
www.columbianlodge.org


Posted By: Caution1010
Date Posted: May/12/2011 at 2:24pm
Communication involves one person transmitting information understood by the receiving party as the sender intended it.

I understand the need to avoid slang and what not so brothers can understand, no matter their  demographic.

But I'd say this. Sometimes I'm typing from my phone and I expect a brother to understand when I say a phrase such as "U r jokin rite?"...not grammatically correct, yes. But of course brothers understand what the intended message was and that was delivered clearly.

I don't see the need for nitpickiness (if that is a word, though I don't think it is since there's a red wavy line under the word as I type) LOL

As much as technology has changed, can't blame it all on the younger text generation. They too have to go to school and write papers and communicate with other people other than their peers in an intelligible manner. Though textspeak is crazy and takes time to understand, I'm not hammering it on the new generation. Hardly.


-------------
I: 10/1/10
P: 12/3/10
R: 12/31/10

PHA-AL

"You can't trust those fellow-crafts...buncha rogues and murderers!"


Posted By: maboot38
Date Posted: May/12/2011 at 2:29pm
Disagree.  The moderators of the forum expect it, as spelled out in the original post, and I as a Mason am expected to devote to study of the seven liberal arts and sciences.  We do not discard those for convenience.  We are Masons.  We make the extra effort.  Remember, YOU are someone's impression of Freemasonry.  When you post "U R Joking, rite?", sure I understand you, but I am also less than impressed.
 
Certainly I understand your point, but on this we do disagree brother.  As Masons we must always put our best foot forward as we are all representatives of this organization.


-------------
Dan
Columbian Lodge - Boston, MA
http://www.facebook.com/ColumbianLodge1795" rel="nofollow - Columbian Lodge Facebook Page
www.columbianlodge.org


Posted By: JLHSMITH
Date Posted: May/12/2011 at 4:59pm
I guess it's not that serious to me on an online forum. To each there own I guess.

-------------
Unity Lodge #454
W.P.Brown Chapter #142 HRAM
E. J. Jackson #8 KT
Mohammed Temple #34 AEAONMS
J.L.H.Smith Consistory #76 USC SJ PHA
MWPHGLARK


Posted By: coach
Date Posted: May/12/2011 at 5:21pm
You can use it to perfect your skills;
or u cn use it 2 prfct ur skls;
it all depends upon your intention(s).


-------------
Building Builders - Masonic Education!

http://www.coach.net/BuildingBuilders.htm" rel="nofollow - Books I Wrote | http://www.facebook.com/johns.nagy" rel="nofollow - My FB Wall


Posted By: dgresh
Date Posted: May/18/2011 at 9:42pm
Coach,
 
I got a chuckle out of your reply.
 
---
dgresh


Posted By: coach
Date Posted: May/18/2011 at 10:02pm
If ya gonna mess with da language, this gotta be da safest place ta do it!  Wink

-------------
Building Builders - Masonic Education!

http://www.coach.net/BuildingBuilders.htm" rel="nofollow - Books I Wrote | http://www.facebook.com/johns.nagy" rel="nofollow - My FB Wall


Posted By: GaryE
Date Posted: May/19/2011 at 3:36pm
I try to be as clear and concise as possible. I may be getting older, but I find myself more and more annoyed at the increased use slang, all capital letters, etc,. by people. Slang terms get used so often that it actually makes it's way into the dictionary as a legitimate word!

My thirteen year old son just informed me that they don't even teach cursive hand writing in a lot of the schools here because nobody hand writes letters much anymore. 


Posted By: Noblewiebe
Date Posted: May/19/2011 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by GaryE GaryE wrote:

My thirteen year old son just informed me that they don't even teach cursive hand writing in a lot of the schools here because nobody hand writes letters much anymore. 
They don't even know how to apply their signature to a document. Very sad.


-------------
Master Alma #72 1985
A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child.
www.beashrinernow.com





Posted By: GaryE
Date Posted: May/19/2011 at 3:42pm
Very sad indeed. 


Posted By: drew
Date Posted: May/19/2011 at 5:59pm
I'm a courier driver, and my route is in and around a large University.
I've many times, had customers chuckle at, and then berate themselves because when I ask them to sign, the say that they cannot cursive write, and just print their name. 
Worse, is when I need a cheque for a delivery, and I get handed a blank cheque,w ith the customer asking me to fill it out, as they do not know how!!!

Sign of the times I suppose though. I imagine that the general population can type much better than they could less than a generation ago. 
I guess we have to substitute one form for another. 

For the record, I try to write and send at least one hand written letter per month to carious friends; just to say that I do!!!


-------------
...when the guns are the fenceposts; the cars are the doghouse; and the telephone no longer rings.


Posted By: anonymoussupporter
Date Posted: July/21/2011 at 9:56pm
Could not agree more, although I'd like to add that proper etiquette is praised everywhere.


Posted By: BroPowellsLight
Date Posted: September/03/2011 at 2:11pm
Well said. I know that there are times that I have a hard time understanding.

-------------
Mt. Olive Lodge #434

EA: 5/08
FC: 6/08
MM: 7/08


Posted By: eagreen
Date Posted: September/04/2011 at 7:23am
I put the blame on society we allowed these things to happen. We as the people have lost ourselves. What happen to the Martins and Malcomes of these world.  What happen to each on teach one, It takes a nation to raise a child.  We as the people have become so dependent on "It's not my problem".  What we forgot is in the long run as we now are beginning it is our problem. 


Posted By: N4GYN-Ray
Date Posted: September/04/2011 at 4:03pm
This is so important, since accurate communication can sometimes mean the difference between life and death.  All of us must endeavor to learn to communicate in such a way that the reader/listener will understand easily what was said/written.  Thank you for making us all aware of this. Smile


-------------
Ray Bailey - N4GYN
Buford F&AM Lodge #292
Buford, GA


Posted By: jaya
Date Posted: September/04/2011 at 6:10pm
Brother Ray, welcome to the forums. How about an introduction post in the http://forum.mastermason.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=4&title=introduce-and-accommodate-visiting-brethren - http://forum.mastermason.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=4&title=introduce-and-accommodate-visiting-brethren  section. I am also a ham as well, KE4RHN. I do very little with it anymore though.

-------------
Jay Austin

Black Mountain 663 - Junior Warden
AASR Valley of Asheville - KSA
The Masonic Society

http://westernncmason.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - http://westernncmason.blogspot.com


Posted By: N4GYN-Ray
Date Posted: September/04/2011 at 8:35pm
Thank you Brother Jay.  What a nice welcome.  I have written a kind of Bio as you suggested for all to see.  I look forward to learning more about Free Masonry and becoming a better Master Mason as God gives me the opportunity.  Very Best Wishes, Brother!  I encourage you to get back into Ham Radio.  It's the greatest hobby in the world.  And you meet a lot of really great people (like yourself).Smile

-------------
Ray Bailey - N4GYN
Buford F&AM Lodge #292
Buford, GA


Posted By: ernon
Date Posted: September/05/2011 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by coach coach wrote:

You can use it to perfect your skills;
or u cn use it 2 prfct ur skls;

it all depends upon your intention(s).


I have to laugh when I think back to the 1970's, working for HFC. They made us learn their "code" to write our notes on the account cards so the customers could not read what we were writing. That code was almost identical to the texting shorthand of today.


-------------
Scott

Grants Pass Lodge #84 A.F.&A.M.
Medford Lodge #103 A.F.&A.M.
32° A.A.S.R. Valley of Medford
Quatuor Coronati Correspondence Circle


Posted By: daves
Date Posted: September/05/2011 at 5:46pm
Don't get me started on text-speak. If someone sends me an SMS in this dreadful shorthand, I request they send it again in English. If they complain, then I tell them that their message can't have been that important in the first place.

-------------
The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20)
18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5)
http://thecarringtonlodge.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - The Carrington Lodge





Posted By: NobleShabba
Date Posted: May/01/2012 at 12:51pm
Ok, time to swat the hornets nest...

Did we ever consider that the written word was so expensive during the formation of Masonry, that many of those brothers probably were unable to read and write?

Mouth to Ear? Maybe that's why we have "Grammar & Rhetoric" instead of "Penmanship & Spelling"...

-------------
----------------------

DISCLAIMER: These are my comments, and mine alone - they do not necessarily apply to any group to which I belong!


Posted By: edwmax
Date Posted: May/01/2012 at 2:23pm
That is to why the 'mouth to ear'   ... to teach proper English usage in speech   vs  .... ghetto slang  ... one can't write it if he can not speak the 'grammer & rhetoric' correctly.

Further, in the operative days of Masonry, the guild was the only schooling (education) a man would have the opportunity to receive.   ... 


Further still, in many areas of the country it was the Freemasons or local Lodge that started schools to teach their children and the children of their neighbors.  Many of these became today's public schools.   It was Ben Franklin that first advocated for public schools in the new United States.   ....

So I think "Penmanship & Spelling' is well covered.   However, there tends to be some that joins the forum that thinks everyone understands his 'ghetto slang'.

-------------
"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."





Thomasville 369


Posted By: BigBob
Date Posted: May/02/2012 at 9:36pm
Is "ghetto slang" even an appropriate term to use? I'm sure you're not using it in an inflamitory manner, but that term comes with certain connotations. It's sort of like telling someone not to speak "hillbilly" or something along those lines.

As far as what we write, who judges was is appropriate and how strict are we supposed to be. Should we have done sort of template we need to follow for writing posts? Are we going to start calling each other out for the improper use of punctuation marks? Maybe we should start using MLA, APA, or Chicago style?

When I was in grade school, having the words: "but", "and", and "or" at the begging of a sentence was really frowned upon. BUT . . . in college and in the course of conversation it's totally acceptable.



-------------
Ribualt Lodge 272 - SW
Jacksonville 12 R.A.M. - King
Hallmark 2 R.S.M.
I-09.21.10
P-11.18.10
R-02.15.11


Posted By: NobleShabba
Date Posted: May/02/2012 at 9:36pm
I find that the art of being succinct even while excersicing the abilities to pontificate are not unlike the challenges of mental dexterity required to produce readable and comprehensible output in a manner that is palatable to one's audience...

-------------
----------------------

DISCLAIMER: These are my comments, and mine alone - they do not necessarily apply to any group to which I belong!


Posted By: daves
Date Posted: May/02/2012 at 11:01pm
Couldn't have put it better ...

-------------
The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20)
18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5)
http://thecarringtonlodge.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - The Carrington Lodge





Posted By: tm274
Date Posted: May/03/2012 at 3:30am
Originally posted by daves daves wrote:

Couldn't have put it better ...
 
 
 
 
Couldn't have put it better ... muhself. Tongue


-------------
Initiated : 23rd April 2002
Passed   : 25th June 2002
Raised    : 24th Sept 2002

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
32° Farenheit is certainly not higher than 3° Cel.


Posted By: masonic.truths
Date Posted: May/04/2012 at 10:46am
Originally posted by NobleShabba NobleShabba wrote:

Ok, time to swat the hornets nest...

Did we ever consider that the written word was so expensive during the formation of Masonry, that many of those brothers probably were unable to read and write?

Mouth to Ear? Maybe that's why we have "Grammar & Rhetoric" instead of "Penmanship & Spelling"...
 
I don't think the Seven Liberal Arts and Sciences include "Penmanship & Spelling".


Posted By: edwmax
Date Posted: May/04/2012 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by BigBob BigBob wrote:

Is "ghetto slang" even an appropriate term to use? I'm sure you're not using it in an inflamitory manner, but that term comes with certain connotations. It's sort of like telling someone not to speak "hillbilly" or something along those lines.

As far as what we write, who judges was is appropriate and how strict are we supposed to be. Should we have done sort of template we need to follow for writing posts? Are we going to start calling each other out for the improper use of punctuation marks? Maybe we should start using MLA, APA, or Chicago style?

When I was in grade school, having the words: "but", "and", and "or" at the begging of a sentence was really frowned upon. BUT . . . in college and in the course of conversation it's totally acceptable.




Then I suggest you reread to original post of this thread.   ... Slang in one area of the country or community may not be understood else where. 

The term 'ghetto slang' is appropriate when referring to generally un-appropriate form/style of speech.   ... thus the reference for proper "Grammer & Rhetoric" to be used on the forum.     Your attempt to make my use of the term as being 'inflamitory' was un-called for.

Slang speech, ghetto slang, or what ever you might want to call it to be 'politically correct' is usually (not always) indicative of an 'un-educated' person.

However, my reply was about the question of 'Penmanship & Spelling', if one can not speak English correctly he can not write it correctly either.   ... The original post to this thread covers this.


-------------
"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."





Thomasville 369


Posted By: BigBob
Date Posted: May/04/2012 at 7:16pm
Look Ed, I'm not going to argue with you. I said I'm sure that's not what you meant. If you think that's uncalled for, then fine. I'm sorry my comment made you think otherwise.



-------------
Ribualt Lodge 272 - SW
Jacksonville 12 R.A.M. - King
Hallmark 2 R.S.M.
I-09.21.10
P-11.18.10
R-02.15.11


Posted By: NobleShabba
Date Posted: May/04/2012 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:


...
The term 'ghetto slang' is appropriate when referring to generally un-appropriate form/style of speech.
...

We also trust you meant "inappropriate"

Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:


...
However, my reply was about the question of 'Penmanship & Spelling', if one can not speak English correctly he can not write it correctly either.
...

While I agree that the practice of the proper form in the written word tends to reinforce the spoken, I ultimately disagree with this point, as I have met people who were functionally illiterate and had competent command of the Queen's English.

(like right now, haven't a clue what I just wrote, it just looked pretty when I typed it out... )

-------------
----------------------

DISCLAIMER: These are my comments, and mine alone - they do not necessarily apply to any group to which I belong!


Posted By: edwmax
Date Posted: May/04/2012 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by NobleShabba NobleShabba wrote:

I find that the art of being succinct even while excersicing the abilities to pontificate are not unlike the challenges of mental dexterity required to produce readable and comprehensible output in a manner that is palatable to one's audience...


.... precisely ....


-------------
"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."





Thomasville 369


Posted By: edwmax
Date Posted: May/04/2012 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by NobleShabba NobleShabba wrote:

Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:


...
The term 'ghetto slang' is appropriate when referring to generally un-appropriate form/style of speech.
...

We also trust you meant "inappropriate"   


I meant what was stated .... appropriate!  ... my rhetoric is correct.

Originally posted by NobleShabba NobleShabba wrote:

Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:


...
However, my reply was about the question of 'Penmanship & Spelling', if one can not speak English correctly he can not write it correctly either.
...

While I agree that the practice of the proper form in the written word tends to reinforce the spoken, I ultimately disagree with this point, as I have met people who were functionally illiterate and had competent command of the Queen's English.

(like right now, haven't a clue what I just wrote, it just looked pretty when I typed it out... )


As I said  "not always"   ... I am fully aware some educated people will speak 'slang' to fit in with a group.  However, these educated persons do know when it is appropriate and when it is not.    ...

But my statement was that proper speech reinforces proper written sentences.  The opposite of what you just wrote.   ...However, your comment also seems to allude to a person that speaks correctly but can not write.   I don't think a person can be educated in correct speech and not be able to write unless he is blind.   ...

Anyway, one can not be a Mason (in my GL) and not be able to write.  If a Candidate was found to be unable to write after he was initiated, he must learn to write before he can advance.


-------------
"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."





Thomasville 369


Posted By: daves
Date Posted: May/04/2012 at 9:07pm
Wow!! On Tuesday I was talking to a senior Grand Lodge officer who admitted to me that he was dyslexic. My opinion of him has risen right up since then - imagine the effort required to learn ritual to a high level and write and receive reports.

-------------
The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20)
18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5)
http://thecarringtonlodge.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - The Carrington Lodge





Posted By: tm274
Date Posted: May/04/2012 at 10:18pm
 
      dyslexics of the World...............UNTIE!!!!!


-------------
Initiated : 23rd April 2002
Passed   : 25th June 2002
Raised    : 24th Sept 2002

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
32° Farenheit is certainly not higher than 3° Cel.


Posted By: masonic.truths
Date Posted: May/05/2012 at 8:50am
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

Originally posted by NobleShabba NobleShabba wrote:

Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:


...
The term 'ghetto slang' is appropriate when referring to generally un-appropriate form/style of speech.
...

We also trust you meant "inappropriate"   


I meant what was stated .... appropriate!  ... my rhetoric is correct.

 
Is un-appropriate slang for inappropriate?Wink


Posted By: edwmax
Date Posted: May/05/2012 at 1:16pm
No   ....

" .... Un`ap`pro´pri`ate
a.1.Inappropriate; unsuitable.

2.Not appropriated.
v. t.1.To take from private possession; to restore to the possession or right of all; as, to unappropriate a monopoly.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, published 1913 by C. & G. Merriam Co."


-------------
"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."





Thomasville 369


Posted By: BigBob
Date Posted: May/05/2012 at 2:47pm
http://langblog.englishplus.com/?p=1099

http://i.word.com/idictionary/Unappropriate

-------------
Ribualt Lodge 272 - SW
Jacksonville 12 R.A.M. - King
Hallmark 2 R.S.M.
I-09.21.10
P-11.18.10
R-02.15.11


Posted By: masonic.truths
Date Posted: May/05/2012 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

No   ....

" .... Un`ap`pro´pri`ate
a.1.Inappropriate; unsuitable.

2.Not appropriated.
v. t.1.To take from private possession; to restore to the possession or right of all; as, to unappropriate a monopoly.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, published 1913 by C. & G. Merriam Co."
 

"Unappropriate" is a common misspelling or typo for: http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/inappropriate" rel="nofollow - - unappropriated , http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/unappropriater" rel="nofollow - - unappropriates .

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/unappropriate" rel="nofollow - http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/unappropriate
 
Webster's Revised Unabrideged Dictionary is a descriptive Dictionary:

"Descriptive dictionaries describe the language. They include words that are commonly used even if they are nonstandard. They will often include nonstandard spellings. Prescriptive dictionaries tend to be more concerned about correct or standard English. They prescribe the proper usage and spelling of words. That school dictionary in which I found ain't was a descriptive dictionary."

http://www.englishplus.com/news/news1100.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.englishplus.com/news/news1100.htm
 
"Inappropriate is the standard English term (it actually has Latin roots).

English does have a number of prefixes and suffixes which are nearly synonymous, so people, especially in everyday speech, will construct nonstandard words like “unappropriate.” Since we all know that un- means “not,” we know what the person is saying. I suppose you could also say “nonappropriate.” However, usually there is a standard form based on historical use and understanding. That word is inappropriate in this case.

Some dictionaries might include words like “unappropriate” or “nonappropriate” because someone somewhere used the word in a serious manner. Such dictionaries are called descriptive dictionaries; they merely describe the word used without making any observation about its propriety or standard use.

Some people would see such invented constructions as a sign of lack of education or lack of understanding. In the example you gave, use inappropriate even though we may understand the other words. Using the others may give some people the impression that you are not well-educated, well-read, or well-spoken as you could be."

http://langblog.englishplus.com/?p=1099" rel="nofollow - http://langblog.englishplus.com/?p=1099

Edit:  Sorry BigBob, I didn't mean to step on your post referencing the langblog.  I was typing my post at the same time.
 
 

 
 


Posted By: edwmax
Date Posted: May/05/2012 at 3:32pm
So ... it is not a slang word.   It is in Webster's.   ... and it was not a misspelling in the 1913 dictionary and has been in use since before 1800 (see websters).  Even masonic.truths' link shows this.


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"He who would assume to govern others must first learn to govern himself."





Thomasville 369


Posted By: BigBob
Date Posted: May/05/2012 at 3:36pm
No problemo mon frere.

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Ribualt Lodge 272 - SW
Jacksonville 12 R.A.M. - King
Hallmark 2 R.S.M.
I-09.21.10
P-11.18.10
R-02.15.11


Posted By: masonic.truths
Date Posted: May/05/2012 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by edwmax edwmax wrote:

So ... it is not a slang word.   It is in Webster's.   ... and it was not a misspelling in the 1913 dictionary.
Just because it is in Webster's does not mean it is not slang.  Some Dictionaries include ain't, but that doesn't mean that it isn't slang.
 
Webster's Revised Unabrideged Dictionary is a descriptive Dictionary:

"Descriptive dictionaries describe the language. They include words that are commonly used even if they are nonstandard. They will often include nonstandard spellings. Prescriptive dictionaries tend to be more concerned about correct or standard English. They prescribe the proper usage and spelling of words. That school dictionary in which I found ain't was a descriptive dictionary."

The citations in my previous post make it clear that proper (standard) usage dictates the use of "inappropriate" when you are indicating something is not appropriate.
 
Nonstandard usage of a word is slang.
 
 

 
 


Posted By: jaya
Date Posted: May/05/2012 at 7:51pm
We are argueing about if a word is real or not. Brethren, this is just nuts.

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Jay Austin

Black Mountain 663 - Junior Warden
AASR Valley of Asheville - KSA
The Masonic Society

http://westernncmason.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - http://westernncmason.blogspot.com


Posted By: goomba
Date Posted: May/06/2012 at 6:58pm
Not sure if this is a good place for this, but I'm giving it a shot.  When I post lately a string of text is in front of my message. 


Posted By: windrider
Date Posted: May/07/2012 at 11:07am
Originally posted by goomba goomba wrote:

Not sure if this is a good place for this, but I'm giving it a shot.  When I post lately a string of text is in front of my message. 

I see nothing wrong.


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Master, Webmaster, Lodge Ambassador
Ancient York Lodge AF&AM

Lowell, MA

God never sends us anything we can't handle. Sometimes I wish He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa


Posted By: droche
Date Posted: June/09/2012 at 9:42am
I am a special education teacher. Part of my job is to teach writing to high school students with moderate special needs, English being a second language to many of them. I too lament the deterioration and lack of emphasis on writing skills in our schools. I am known to be a fairly decent writer, however, my penmanship is terrible as I do not have well developed fine motor coordination.

How did I develop my writing skills? Two things:

1. I read a lot. Reading and writing is like tasting and smelling. One cannot taste without the sense of smell. Likewise, IMO, (with perhaps a few exceptions) one cannot develop writing skills without being able to read decently. My writing skills really took off when I started reading Charles Dickens, a very complex but effective writer. It doesn't have to be Charles Dickens, it can be any advanced writer. 

2. Some may laugh or find this hard to believe- I use a fountain pen. My penmanship is so bad that a fountain pen with its increased friction forces me to slow down and makes my writing more legible. I then read somewhere that years ago, students used fountain or ink pens for writing and it forced them to slow down and form their letters. The slower process also allowed them greater time to think about what they were going to write and improved their writing.

When it comes to Grammar, proper standard English puts us on the same page. Has anyone tried to read writing by common English people in the 1600's? Try reading John Smith's account of encountering animals and Indians in the New World. Very difficult to understand. Likewise today, many of our high school students were taught writing under the Whole Language system which did not emphasize spelling and grammar. Thankfully, Whole Language, while it had is merits, is no longer taught, but the damage has been done in many cases. However with text messaging, these new slangs and abbreviations have come in and I fear we are going backwards once again.


Posted By: daves
Date Posted: June/09/2012 at 5:58pm
I agree Bro Droche. May I make one other suggestion? Read to you children when they're toddlers. Not only do they learn the beauty of language, it also inspires them to learn to read and gives them a love of reading for life (if my children are anything to go by). It's also one of the best parts of being a parent.

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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20)
18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5)
http://thecarringtonlodge.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - The Carrington Lodge





Posted By: rchadwic
Date Posted: July/22/2012 at 5:00pm
Just happened on this post.... I have 3 kids, all adults now. When they were little, I read to them every night. As time went on, they started to read to me. About the time the oldest boy was 11 or so, When we were visiting my parents, I commented to my mother that they really enjoyed reading. She got that funny smile that mothers get when dispensing momentuous information....
"You like reading, don't you?"
"Uh.. yeah...." (I always have.)
"I used to read to you and your brother and sister when you were little"
The penny dropped about then, and I realised that she was right, that reading to them when they are babies and toddlers instills a comfortable feeling and induces them to like reading.
My middle son and his wife are reproducing. We have started buying books for the kid. Maybe he/she won't read books, but whatever media is there, I expect him/her to be an avid reader by the age of 5 or 6.



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Bob Chadwick
Palm Bay #397
Palm Bay, Fla


Posted By: daves
Date Posted: July/22/2012 at 6:14pm
Couldn't agree more, Bob. Some of my happiest memories with my three sons was reading to them at bedtime. And, yes, they all started reading for themselves early, and grew up with a love of books.

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The Carrington Lodge (WAC 363)
Bassendean RAC (WAC 20)
18th Boucaut RC (AASR Australia 5)
http://thecarringtonlodge.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - The Carrington Lodge





Posted By: Veritas
Date Posted: August/09/2012 at 5:14pm
a


Posted By: Adrian N. Gollop
Date Posted: December/19/2012 at 6:21am
Well said my friend.   "God, ' says Sanctius, "created man the participant of reason; and as he willed him to be a social being, he bestowed upon him the gift of language, in the perfecting of which there are three aids. The first is Grammar, which rejects from language all solecisms and barbarous expressions; the second is Logic, which is occupied with the truthfulness of language; and the third is Rhetoric, which seeks only the adornment of language."Star

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"Be True to what you do, and what you do will be True to you." ~ Adrian N. Gollop



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